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Advertise your product or brand here
contact www.OpenSubtitles.org today

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Will you enter, mystery
challenger, and sign in, please?

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Are you in the movies?

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No.

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One down, nine to go.
Mr. Gabel.

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Are you an athlete?

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Yes.

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Miss Francis.

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Are you a golfer, mystery guest?

10
00:00:46,112 --> 00:00:47,180
No.

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That's five down and five to go.
Mr Gabel.

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Are you, a boxer?

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- Yes.
- Miss Francis.

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Boy, that sure isn't the
voice for it, is it?

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Let me see now.
What could that be?

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Are you a fellow who was named
after a chap

17
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that they brought the mountains to?
By the name of Muhammad?

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- Are you Cassius Clay?
- Well...

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Yes!

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Friday.

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Yes?
Assalamu alaikum, Grandma!

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- Walaikum assalam!
- What y'all doing?

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Downstairs watching television.

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- Yeah? Where's May May?
- Downstairs.

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Don't tell her.
Put her on the phone.

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OK. May May!

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- Yes?
- Assalamu alaikum!

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- Walaikum assalam, Daddy!
- How's my daughter?

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Fine. We went to go
see Mama Bird.

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Good. I heard that. Did you...
were you happy to see her?

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Yes.
I was just getting dressed.

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I'm getting ready to go look at
another place like Deer Lake.

33
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- You are?
- Yes.

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It might be possible that if I
like it, I might fight again.

35
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No!
Don't fight again, please.

36
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Take the title back four times.
Can you imagine?

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Don't fight again.
You're getting old.

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- I'm getting what?
- Old.

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Too old?
How old is your daddy?

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- How old? Like, 37?
- That's right.

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Angelo Dundee is in the ring,

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the veteran trainer
of Muhammad Ali

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since the first couple
of fights of his career.

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The crowd is starting to chant, "Ali.
Ali." Like old times.

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Ali is six feet three, but
Trevor Berbick is not small.

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He's six feet two and a half.

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Ali is almost 40 years old.
Trevor Berbick is 27.

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Here he comes.

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What a production this has
turned out to be.

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I knew what I wanted to do
at the age of 12 years old,

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and every thing has a purpose in
life and every man has a purpose.

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And it's the knowing of that purpose
which enables every soul to fulfill it.

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And he who knows his life purpose, then
he knows exactly where he's going.

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I'm not conceited,
I'm just convinced.

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- My buddy, Muhammad Ali.
- How's the weather?

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How's the weather?

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Beautiful here.
Beautiful here.

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My name is Gene Kilroy. I'm the former
business manager of Muhammad Ali.

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The greatest fighter of all times.
The greatest friend.

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The greatest guy.
I learned a lot from him.

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Yeah, man, I step in town, I jump off
a plane and in my cool white suit.

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, brothers!

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Boy, it was better
than a ringside seat.

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You know, a ringside seat, you
gotta go when the fight's over.

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To be part of the victory
and part of the defeat,

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you know, that was a special thing.
You know, be right there.

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I wanna introduce a long-time
advisor of the champ, Gene Kilroy,

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who is our spokesperson today.
Gene.

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It's nice to be here.

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Looking back over my life,
somebody asked me one time,

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"Do you have any fear?"

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I said, "The only fear I have is that
some day my mother's gonna wake me up

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and say 'It's time to go to school',
that my life has been a dream."

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With Muhammad Ali, I've been
blessed to be around that man.

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There are multi-millionaires who
would have given a million dollars

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00:06:10,936 --> 00:06:13,773
to be with Ali every day
like I've been with him.

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My first encounter with Muhammad
Ali was the 1960 Olympics in Rome.

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He was like
the Mayor of Olympic Village.

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He wears a gold medal around,
everybody wanted to be around him.

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Everybody,
everybody wanted to meet him.

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Tell me how you came to get
such a Roman name as that.

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Well, as I understand, I'm
Cassius Marcellus Clay the Sixth

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and my great-great-grandfather
was a Kentucky slave

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and he was named
after some great Kentuckian.

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Cassius Marcellus Clay is
a great name in Kentucky.

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And, really, where he was from
and where it was all originated,

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I couldn't tell you, but since I've
reached a little fame in boxing,

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most people want to know where I'm
from and, where did I get that name.

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But really, I haven't
really checked on it,

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so I see that I'm gonna have
to go look and...

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00:07:03,121 --> 00:07:04,322
You'll have to look it up.

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See what it's all about, now
that I'm getting interviews.

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- Hey, Gene.
- Yeah.

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I heard a little story you might like.
Goes like this.

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As a boy, I grew up in
Louisville, Kentucky.

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In the state of Kentucky that has
pretty horses and fast women.

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I come from a really loving,
close family.

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My dad and ma were
Christian people.

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Very hardworking
and good, decent people.

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My dad was a commercial artist.

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My dad was the best sign painter
in Louisville, Kentucky.

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Way back in a little one-horse
town called Louisville, Kentucky,

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back in 1941, Mr Cassius Clay
married Mrs Odessa Grady

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who later became Mrs Cassius
Clay and they had a little son.

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This is Mrs Clay.

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And this is my daddy.
Mr Cassius Clay Senior.

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- Say hello.
- Hello. Hello.

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- We're very proud of him, lady.
- Thank you.

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I was born in 1943.
Muhammad was born in 1942.

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We were 18 months apart.
We had fun.

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In those days he was
known as Cassius Clay.

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He was loquacious, he was cocky.

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He's always been different.
He was born for greatness.

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Today we're going to my old home
site down at 3302 Grant Avenue,

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here in Louisville, Kentucky.

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The house where Muhammad Ali
and myself was raised.

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We shared a room, and that was one of
the most happiest times of my life.

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He was funny. He was funny. And
everything he did, I would go with him.

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The running,
the boxing, everything.

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I was just his best companion in
those days. I was his best friend.

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We were that close, like salt and pepper.
Like salt and pepper.

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And it all begins here.
From the root to the fruit.

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Maryum, tell me something.

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When I started boxing,
how old was I?

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I was 12 years old.

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You were 12?!

127
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Yeah.
I thought you was younger.

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- Twelve.
- 'Cause somebody stole your bike.

129
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Yeah, that's when I was 12.

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It was on a Monday night
in Louisville, 1953.

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We both went to a home show. Every
year they had, like, a big carnival.

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We had rode our bicycle
we got for Christmas up there.

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And when we came out
of the home show,

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our bicycles had got stolen
so we cried.

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We were little boys.
We started crying.

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So we asked somebody coming
out of the building.

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"Please tell us where we could find a
policeman to report our bikes stolen."

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And the gentleman said, "Go downstairs
and there's a policeman downstairs."

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So we went down a long flight of steps.
It was a boxing gym.

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00:10:36,101 --> 00:10:39,972
The policeman was in the
corridor talking to some kids.

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He was all hostile
and wanted to whip somebody.

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So I said, "You never fight
if you don't know how."

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I said, "Has anybody ever taught you
how to fight?" and he said, "No."

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I said, "You should come down
here and learn how to fight first

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before you
starting picking fights."

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So that was the beginning of it.

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He started coming to the gym and
he was a very religious trainer.

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And so he was there when I got
there, and he was there when I left.

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He was 12 years old and weighed 87 pounds.
That's how he got started.

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Cassius Clay of Chicago
challenges Gary Joyce,

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the Eastern Heavyweight champ.

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And Joyce is in trouble
from the first round on.

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When he discovered boxing,
he was smart.

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He said, "If I can dive, move from
side to side in the boxing ring,

155
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I know I'm not gonna get hit."

156
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So he said, "Rudy, let's go
to the back of the alley

157
00:11:27,786 --> 00:11:29,822
and pick up rocks
and throw the rocks at me."

158
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"See if I can dodge the
rocks." So he would...

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I'd throw the rocks at him. The rocks
would not hit him and go by him.

160
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He would dodge the rocks, improve
his reflexes as a boxer.

161
00:11:39,097 --> 00:11:41,467
And sure enough, when he
got in the boxing ring,

162
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he would dodge those punches.
He was a genius.

163
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Back in the days when Muhammad
and I was young kids,

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he would tell the children in
our neighborhood his destiny,

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how great he would be.

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Most of the kids would laugh
at Muhammad.

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Say, "Cassius,
you can't do that."

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"That's too much for you to do.
You can't be that great."

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When you're a kid,
you always bet some fellas,

170
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"I'm gonna be champion one day,

171
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and when I'm champion, I'm gonna
come down and show you I'm wrong."

172
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And then I say, "Guys, I'm gonna
be a great doctor one day

173
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and I'm gonna be a dentist. I'm
gonna be a great scientist."

174
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"I'm gonna be the President
of the country."

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And there are very few people actually
are able to make good of the boasts

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and come home and say,
"I told you."

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- I got a call from the lobby.
- "I'm Cassius Marcellus Clay."

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"I'm the Golden Glove Champion
of Louisville."

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"I won the Golden Gloves in Seattle.
I'm going to win the Olympics."

180
00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:52,871
Now, this is '58. So I hold my
hand on the phone and I says,

181
00:12:52,904 --> 00:12:56,431
"Willie, there's some sort of a nut
downstairs wants to talk to us."

182
00:13:02,881 --> 00:13:05,417
- It was a great meeting.
- Very interesting.

183
00:13:05,450 --> 00:13:08,153
He was a student. Wanted to
know how much fighters train.

184
00:13:08,186 --> 00:13:13,159
What they ate, how many miles they ran.
He wanted to know everything.

185
00:13:16,895 --> 00:13:19,364
When he came back
from the Olympics,

186
00:13:19,397 --> 00:13:23,335
the Louisville Sponsoring Group
sent him to Archie Moore.

187
00:13:23,368 --> 00:13:27,339
Well, that didn't work because, see,
two star qualities don't blend.

188
00:13:27,372 --> 00:13:30,409
In fact,
what broke the camel's back,

189
00:13:30,442 --> 00:13:33,212
Archie Moore asked him
to sweep the kitchen.

190
00:13:33,245 --> 00:13:35,948
He said, "I didn't sweep the
kitchen for my mother."

191
00:13:35,981 --> 00:13:37,666
"I ain't gonna
sweep no kitchen."

192
00:13:38,483 --> 00:13:41,320
So they called me up,
the Louisville Group,

193
00:13:41,353 --> 00:13:43,522
and they came down
and they interviewed me.

194
00:13:43,555 --> 00:13:46,158
Asked me how I
would handle the kid.

195
00:13:46,191 --> 00:13:49,261
And I told 'em I would take my time.
I don't like to rush anything.

196
00:13:49,294 --> 00:13:51,463
Well, they said, "Well, jeez,
he won an Olympic medal."

197
00:13:51,496 --> 00:13:53,198
I said,
"That don't mean nothing."

198
00:13:53,231 --> 00:13:55,653
Transition from an amateur
to a pro takes time.

199
00:14:09,915 --> 00:14:13,886
He would come to the gym and if
he didn't get a ride to the gym,

200
00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:17,322
he didn't have no car,
he would run.

201
00:14:17,355 --> 00:14:21,293
He would run across the causeway. I
got a call from the police one day.

202
00:14:21,326 --> 00:14:24,630
"There's a tall, skinny kid
running across the causeway

203
00:14:24,663 --> 00:14:26,331
says he's your fighter."

204
00:14:26,364 --> 00:14:28,868
So I said, "Yes, he is.
Cassius Clay."

205
00:14:34,706 --> 00:14:38,610
In the past, everybody else
talked but the fighter.

206
00:14:38,643 --> 00:14:41,446
Now people got to wanna know
the star.

207
00:14:41,479 --> 00:14:45,217
And Life magazine, the biggest
magazine in the world.

208
00:14:45,250 --> 00:14:46,985
They want my pretty face on it.

209
00:14:47,018 --> 00:14:49,221
I was around with this kid
for four years.

210
00:14:49,254 --> 00:14:51,690
They thought I was a mute
because I never put a word in.

211
00:14:51,723 --> 00:14:54,026
"Talk to my guy,
please," you know.

212
00:14:54,059 --> 00:14:56,028
When they do interviews with me,

213
00:14:56,061 --> 00:14:58,997
they are not the interviews
that you do with boxers.

214
00:14:59,030 --> 00:15:02,234
Boxers usually don't talk
and all they can tell you is,

215
00:15:02,267 --> 00:15:07,639
"He ran five miles yesterday," or duh,
duh, duh, good left jab, duh, duh.

216
00:15:07,672 --> 00:15:09,975
I'm not that type of Negro,
black man, you understand?

217
00:15:10,008 --> 00:15:11,209
Yes.

218
00:15:11,243 --> 00:15:15,247
See, the questions they ask me
on interviews and in colleges

219
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,516
is the same thing,
or more complicated,

220
00:15:17,549 --> 00:15:20,519
than you would ask the Queen
of England or President Nixon

221
00:15:20,552 --> 00:15:21,974
or some senator politician.

222
00:15:23,588 --> 00:15:27,492
He used to jump and bounce
and pull hands down, you know,

223
00:15:27,525 --> 00:15:32,264
so I wasn't making no excuses for it.
I said, "It works."

224
00:15:32,297 --> 00:15:37,302
In fact, one time I was so influenced
by the media, the Doug Jones fight,

225
00:15:37,335 --> 00:15:40,539
I told him in one part of that
fight, "Get your hands up."

226
00:15:40,572 --> 00:15:44,009
And he got the heck kicked out of him.
I said, "Put your hands down."

227
00:15:44,042 --> 00:15:47,546
This is the criteria, because
everybody kept their hands up.

228
00:15:47,579 --> 00:15:50,749
No big man ever moved like
that and this was the key.

229
00:15:50,782 --> 00:15:55,053
He was special. And you're as good
as your talent you work with.

230
00:15:55,086 --> 00:15:57,456
And Muhammad made me shine.

231
00:15:59,457 --> 00:16:01,426
This is BBC Television.

232
00:16:01,459 --> 00:16:03,095
Well, no doubt
about the top feature

233
00:16:03,128 --> 00:16:05,664
in tonight's specially lengthened
edition of Sportsview,

234
00:16:05,697 --> 00:16:07,499
because everyone
is still talking

235
00:16:07,532 --> 00:16:11,436
about the fight between Cassius
Clay and Henry Cooper.

236
00:16:11,469 --> 00:16:13,705
I knew the English pub were
tremendous.

237
00:16:13,738 --> 00:16:18,643
I knew for a fact they weren't
gonna like him the first time,

238
00:16:18,676 --> 00:16:20,079
'cause he talked too much.

239
00:16:24,749 --> 00:16:27,319
I knew they
wouldn't like Muhammad.

240
00:16:27,352 --> 00:16:33,592
When we first went there, we didn't see
nobody. The people didn't like him.

241
00:16:33,625 --> 00:16:39,564
And we're fighting the hero, Henry Cooper.
And he'd gone, "Five. Five."

242
00:16:39,597 --> 00:16:43,668
People didn't go for that, you know?
But he was just having fun.

243
00:16:43,701 --> 00:16:47,139
And Cassius Clay,
the gimmick man to the last,

244
00:16:47,172 --> 00:16:49,708
comes into the ring with this
monster crown on his head

245
00:16:49,741 --> 00:16:51,510
and all the way
down to the ringside,

246
00:16:51,543 --> 00:16:54,479
through the rows of people
with umbrellas,

247
00:16:54,512 --> 00:16:57,783
People were throwing things and trying
to knock the crown off his head.

248
00:16:57,816 --> 00:17:00,719
So here we go.
It's the fight of the year.

249
00:17:00,752 --> 00:17:03,755
Clay from the right-hand corner
against Cooper of Britain.

250
00:17:03,788 --> 00:17:08,627
And Clay has said, "I'll beat
him in five." We'll see.

251
00:17:15,967 --> 00:17:19,438
And Cooper's left eye is
a very sorry sight indeed.

252
00:17:19,471 --> 00:17:23,442
- And he's teasing Cooper.
- Round four.

253
00:17:23,475 --> 00:17:26,845
Henry Cooper, you know,
was well loved by everybody.

254
00:17:26,878 --> 00:17:30,582
I can see why.
And, it was a great night.

255
00:17:30,615 --> 00:17:33,685
After all,
he hit my guy on the chin.

256
00:17:37,522 --> 00:17:40,826
Dropped him. He slid down the ropes.
It was dramatic.

257
00:17:40,859 --> 00:17:43,095
And thank God
the ropes were there.

258
00:17:43,128 --> 00:17:45,397
That was the end
of the fourth round.

259
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:48,100
And he hit him about two seconds
before the end of the round.

260
00:17:48,133 --> 00:17:50,602
He came back to the corner
and I was chewing him up.

261
00:17:50,635 --> 00:17:52,871
They're working furiously
on him in the corner.

262
00:17:52,904 --> 00:17:56,442
Angelo Dundee, his trainer, he
really is giving him a talking-to.

263
00:17:57,709 --> 00:18:00,178
Cooper's left
hook finally scores

264
00:18:00,211 --> 00:18:05,417
and Clay was down two seconds
from the end of the fourth round.

265
00:18:06,135 --> 00:18:07,820
And out they
come for round five.

266
00:18:07,853 --> 00:18:10,555
And now he's stepping in, and I
think this is it for Cooper.

267
00:18:10,588 --> 00:18:13,558
The towel has come in
from Cooper's corner.

268
00:18:13,591 --> 00:18:16,595
There was no alternative.
He had to stop the fight.

269
00:18:16,628 --> 00:18:21,733
Inside, Frank Butler asked Clay if he
still thought Henry Cooper was a bum.

270
00:18:21,766 --> 00:18:26,738
He's not a bum. I must admit, I
really underestimated the fella.

271
00:18:26,771 --> 00:18:30,709
My nose has never bled
until I fought him

272
00:18:30,742 --> 00:18:35,180
and his left hook was as good or
better than the people had predicted.

273
00:18:35,213 --> 00:18:38,550
And I must say he had me on the floor
at the end of the fourth round.

274
00:18:38,583 --> 00:18:39,951
I've never...
I've been on the floor once,

275
00:18:39,985 --> 00:18:44,723
but I wasn't really shook like I was.
And I have to say he's the...

276
00:18:44,756 --> 00:18:48,460
He really should be the
number-two contender next to me.

277
00:18:48,493 --> 00:18:50,495
After all,
I'm still the greatest.

278
00:18:50,528 --> 00:18:54,566
But he should have been the number-two
contender. He's the best I've met yet.

279
00:18:54,599 --> 00:18:56,001
Well, you're still
a wonderful prophet,

280
00:18:56,034 --> 00:18:59,771
because you said you'd win in round
five and you won in round five.

281
00:18:59,804 --> 00:19:03,842
But don't you think you were just a
little lucky to win in round five,

282
00:19:03,875 --> 00:19:05,877
in view of the fourth round?

283
00:19:05,910 --> 00:19:08,213
Well, I don't know
what you mean by luck.

284
00:19:08,246 --> 00:19:10,882
I told you it would end in
five and that's what happened.

285
00:19:10,915 --> 00:19:14,486
Yes, and you came in the ring
with a crown on your head.

286
00:19:14,519 --> 00:19:16,922
- Is that because...
- Because I am the king.

287
00:19:16,955 --> 00:19:20,482
I understand you have a Queen of
England, but you don't have a king.

288
00:19:22,586 --> 00:19:25,797
The second time we went, though,
we couldn't walk the streets.

289
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:31,703
So there you go. I mean, then he
wasn't as glib or crazy or anything,

290
00:19:31,736 --> 00:19:35,631
but the people fell in love with him
because they knew it, he was for real.

291
00:19:39,644 --> 00:19:43,782
Maryum, what do people say? Do
they know you're my daughter?

292
00:19:43,815 --> 00:19:45,250
Yes, everybody.

293
00:19:45,283 --> 00:19:47,786
Tell me the truth.
Do they make any cracks?

294
00:19:47,819 --> 00:19:49,721
"You think you're cool
'cause of your daddy."

295
00:19:49,754 --> 00:19:54,759
Yeah, like, if I do
something, they say,

296
00:19:54,792 --> 00:19:58,530
"You think you're big just because
you're Muhammad Ali's daughter."

297
00:19:58,563 --> 00:20:02,534
They say that to you?
Who say it? Boys or girls?

298
00:20:02,567 --> 00:20:04,803
- Mostly boys.
- Oh.

299
00:20:05,937 --> 00:20:07,539
I mean, I knew he was famous

300
00:20:07,572 --> 00:20:10,308
as soon as I can walk and talk
and understand words.

301
00:20:10,341 --> 00:20:12,978
You know, I heard how
much people adored him

302
00:20:13,011 --> 00:20:15,847
and, you know, a simple trip
to the convenience store

303
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,685
was 50 people surrounding our car.
He couldn't go anywhere.

304
00:20:20,718 --> 00:20:22,838
And my father loved people,
so he would entertain them

305
00:20:22,854 --> 00:20:26,825
and stay out there and talk to 'em and,
"He's gonna get knocked down in five."

306
00:20:26,858 --> 00:20:29,361
And I'm sitting here looking at
him and I'm looking at the people

307
00:20:29,394 --> 00:20:33,698
and so I knew this is not normal.
You know what I'm saying?

308
00:20:33,731 --> 00:20:38,303
So I knew really, really
young, um, how huge he was,

309
00:20:38,336 --> 00:20:42,841
is when I would see people on television
that I admire, like Tom Jones,

310
00:20:42,874 --> 00:20:46,911
or Philip Wilson or Sly Stone,
Sammy Davis, Jr.,

311
00:20:46,944 --> 00:20:48,980
and then they would be at my house.
I'm like, "Whoa."

312
00:20:49,013 --> 00:20:53,418
You know, "You're famous," you
know, so I knew he was up there.

313
00:20:54,886 --> 00:20:59,658
My dad played kind of the good cop
out of the parents, you know.

314
00:20:59,691 --> 00:21:01,226
You know, it was so funny.

315
00:21:01,259 --> 00:21:05,330
He would, like, if I acted up, he'll go,
"Belinda, go, she needs a spanking."

316
00:21:05,363 --> 00:21:08,066
And then, you know, my mother
give me a little spanking.

317
00:21:08,099 --> 00:21:09,868
And he'll go in your room,
"Are you OK?"

318
00:21:09,901 --> 00:21:11,636
"You want me to get you
some ice cream?"

319
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:13,705
You know. He always had
to be the nice guy,

320
00:21:13,738 --> 00:21:16,808
but he was just a practical joker.
Loved to joke.

321
00:21:16,841 --> 00:21:19,878
He just always played around,
very loving, very affectionate.

322
00:21:19,911 --> 00:21:21,031
Always kissing your cheeks.

323
00:21:21,046 --> 00:21:23,648
He'd wake you up in the
morning kissing your cheeks.

324
00:21:23,681 --> 00:21:26,685
"Gimme jaws, gimme the nose," you know.
So he was very loving

325
00:21:26,718 --> 00:21:30,722
and you would think a boxer
wouldn't be a teddy bear like that.

326
00:21:30,755 --> 00:21:33,625
I just had fun with my dad. I
always wanted to be with him.

327
00:21:33,658 --> 00:21:34,926
I was like a daddy's girl.

328
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,330
Daddy's gotta leave. He's going
into training, do you hear?

329
00:21:38,363 --> 00:21:41,399
- Daddy's going to fight.
- I want to go with you.

330
00:21:41,432 --> 00:21:44,803
You wanna go with me? You can't.
Can you fight?

331
00:21:46,037 --> 00:21:49,641
Do you fight? No, you don't fight.
You can't go.

332
00:21:49,674 --> 00:21:52,010
- Here you go.
- Yes, I go!

333
00:21:52,043 --> 00:21:55,647
No, Daddy going to get in shape
and you stay at home. You hear?

334
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,483
I wanna...
I wanna go with you.

335
00:21:58,516 --> 00:22:01,086
You wanna go fight with me?
OK.

336
00:22:02,420 --> 00:22:05,890
- Come on, sweetheart.
- The man gonna fight!

337
00:22:05,923 --> 00:22:08,360
- Who gonna fight?
- The man.

338
00:22:08,393 --> 00:22:10,429
The man? Your dad.

339
00:22:14,132 --> 00:22:16,801
Would you please
cook me some dinner?

340
00:22:16,834 --> 00:22:20,405
I go to work all day,
I've been out all day

341
00:22:20,438 --> 00:22:24,809
and when all you have to do is to lay
around in this big house and live easy

342
00:22:24,842 --> 00:22:27,078
and at least you can
have my meal on time.

343
00:22:27,111 --> 00:22:30,682
- Woman, please, is the food ready?
- Yes.

344
00:22:30,715 --> 00:22:33,118
All right. Come on.
Let's go eat, May May.

345
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,423
There's one thing you don't mess
with is colored folks' food

346
00:22:38,456 --> 00:22:39,991
and colored folks' money.

347
00:22:41,859 --> 00:22:43,228
Come on. Come on, darlin'.

348
00:22:47,732 --> 00:22:50,101
He loved his children.

349
00:22:50,134 --> 00:22:53,705
He loved his children,
but he was a blessed man

350
00:22:53,738 --> 00:22:58,042
to have Belinda's mom and dad
take care of the kids

351
00:22:58,075 --> 00:23:02,714
when there was such a demand put
on him as being a world man.

352
00:23:02,747 --> 00:23:08,987
He asked to travel here or travel there
so his title, his heavyweight belt...

353
00:23:09,020 --> 00:23:12,424
What was more valuable
than that heavyweight belt

354
00:23:12,457 --> 00:23:17,061
was having his mother-in-law raising
the children, which she did.

355
00:23:17,094 --> 00:23:19,564
And she did a good job.

356
00:23:21,499 --> 00:23:24,736
He used to love
to tape record conversations

357
00:23:24,769 --> 00:23:27,138
and he would always say,
"I'm gonna tape you guys,

358
00:23:27,171 --> 00:23:31,009
and when you're older you're
gonna love this, these tapes."

359
00:23:31,042 --> 00:23:34,746
And, um, he would always do it
so when my parents got divorced,

360
00:23:34,779 --> 00:23:37,015
he would call me. "How you doing?
What are you doing?"

361
00:23:37,048 --> 00:23:38,483
"What do you wanna be
when you grow up?"

362
00:23:38,516 --> 00:23:42,821
He would always tell me time is gonna
fly, you know, I'm gonna be older.

363
00:23:42,854 --> 00:23:45,089
I mean, he was just, like...
he could foresee things

364
00:23:45,122 --> 00:23:47,438
and knew how important
those things would be.

365
00:23:47,959 --> 00:23:49,227
- Maryum?
- Sir?

366
00:23:49,261 --> 00:23:53,131
You're now 11 years old. Now,
do you wanna go to college?

367
00:23:53,164 --> 00:23:56,167
Yes, sir. Now, what do
you wanna do there?

368
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,205
Everything Allah made has a purpose.
Trees have a purpose.

369
00:24:00,238 --> 00:24:04,008
- What's the purpose of a cow?
- To give us milk.

370
00:24:04,041 --> 00:24:06,811
OK. What's
the purpose of the sun?

371
00:24:06,844 --> 00:24:09,781
- The sun?
- Sun.

372
00:24:09,814 --> 00:24:15,787
- To give us light and heat.
- And make things grow.

373
00:24:15,820 --> 00:24:20,091
So everything God made, the cows,
horses, the moon, stars, ants,

374
00:24:20,124 --> 00:24:21,993
everything has a purpose.

375
00:24:22,026 --> 00:24:24,262
Now, what's your purpose?
You're a human being.

376
00:24:24,295 --> 00:24:28,032
If God made the sun have a purpose,
humans have a purpose too.

377
00:24:28,065 --> 00:24:31,002
Hey, you haven't found your
life purpose yet, have you?

378
00:24:31,035 --> 00:24:32,470
Yes.

379
00:24:32,503 --> 00:24:35,840
If everybody's born for a purpose,
what do you think you were born for?

380
00:24:35,873 --> 00:24:40,278
- To make people feel better.
- To fix people up.

381
00:24:40,311 --> 00:24:43,048
That's good.
That's good, Maryum.

382
00:24:52,590 --> 00:24:59,564
This bout, 15 rounds for the
heavyweight championship of the world.

383
00:24:59,597 --> 00:25:06,004
The challenger from Louisville,
Kentucky, Cassius Clay.

384
00:25:06,037 --> 00:25:10,108
And his opponent
from Denver, Colorado,

385
00:25:10,141 --> 00:25:18,116
the heavyweight champion of the
world, Charles Sonny Liston.

386
00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:22,587
Ali, by then, had had
19 professional fights.

387
00:25:22,620 --> 00:25:25,323
It wasn't as though he'd
suddenly come upon the scene.

388
00:25:25,356 --> 00:25:28,993
He'd been properly,
properly managed

389
00:25:29,026 --> 00:25:33,998
in the sense that, Dundee
was an expert match maker.

390
00:25:34,031 --> 00:25:37,869
I mean, match making is one of
the great skills in boxing.

391
00:25:37,902 --> 00:25:39,955
Finding the right
guy at the right time.

392
00:25:43,908 --> 00:25:47,612
- Sonny Liston was a gangster.
- I mean, he was a mob guy.

393
00:25:47,645 --> 00:25:52,918
He had fast hands and he could punch.
You wouldn't take him lightly.

394
00:25:55,953 --> 00:26:00,658
Nobody gave, Ali, or Clay
as he then was, a chance.

395
00:26:00,691 --> 00:26:04,262
Liston will kill him.
Kill him in the first round.

396
00:26:05,663 --> 00:26:07,999
It'll be Liston in three rounds.

397
00:26:08,032 --> 00:26:10,902
- Liston.
- One, Liston.

398
00:26:10,935 --> 00:26:13,338
- Second round, Liston.
- Liston in four.

399
00:26:13,371 --> 00:26:15,273
Liston!

400
00:26:15,306 --> 00:26:18,309
- Well, I am for Liston.
- Who did this guy ever fight?

401
00:26:18,342 --> 00:26:19,377
- Who?
- Yeah.

402
00:26:19,410 --> 00:26:20,578
- Clay?
- Yeah.

403
00:26:20,611 --> 00:26:28,019
I mean, what Ali set out to
do was to get into his head.

404
00:26:28,052 --> 00:26:32,090
And, you know,
it had occurred to Ali,

405
00:26:32,123 --> 00:26:37,061
I think, that,
Liston thought he was crazy.

406
00:26:37,094 --> 00:26:38,630
That Ali was crazy.

407
00:26:40,431 --> 00:26:43,668
- You ain't got a chance!
- Let us see, let us see.

408
00:26:47,238 --> 00:26:50,241
Liston, he can't deal with this.

409
00:26:50,274 --> 00:26:53,144
A fella coming at him with a
sledgehammer, he could deal with it,

410
00:26:53,177 --> 00:26:56,247
but, well, "This fella's
crazy," you know.

411
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,149
And that's how he
went into the ring.

412
00:26:58,182 --> 00:26:59,751
Hey, get back!

413
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:09,694
I predict that tonight somebody will
die at the ringside from shock.

414
00:27:09,727 --> 00:27:13,231
The world heavyweight boxing
title on the line.

415
00:27:13,264 --> 00:27:17,068
Looking to get Sonny to lunge.

416
00:27:17,101 --> 00:27:19,037
Liston thought he was
gonna win the fight

417
00:27:19,070 --> 00:27:22,106
and his people thought
he was gonna win the fight,

418
00:27:22,139 --> 00:27:24,208
but,
um, that wasn't what Ali saw.

419
00:27:24,241 --> 00:27:27,712
Less than one minute more
in this second round.

420
00:27:29,213 --> 00:27:32,116
Another downright hammer shot.
There goes another one!

421
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:34,686
Sonny wobbles. Got a wobble.

422
00:27:48,766 --> 00:27:51,469
The fight never went
Liston's way.

423
00:27:51,502 --> 00:27:55,339
At the end of the sixth round,
Liston sat on the stool and said,

424
00:27:55,372 --> 00:27:57,175
"That's it, I've finished."

425
00:27:57,208 --> 00:27:58,810
They might be stopping it.

426
00:27:58,843 --> 00:28:00,478
That might be over,
ladies and gentlemen.

427
00:28:00,511 --> 00:28:04,315
Get up there, Joe, get up there.
Get up in the ring.

428
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:13,624
Get near the microphone.

429
00:28:13,657 --> 00:28:18,029
All you reporters... all you
reporters made it hard on Liston.

430
00:28:18,062 --> 00:28:20,832
Never write about me like that.
Never make me six to one.

431
00:28:20,865 --> 00:28:24,469
You just make me angry. Never,
never make me no underdog,

432
00:28:24,502 --> 00:28:27,038
and never talk
about who's gonna stop me.

433
00:28:27,071 --> 00:28:28,773
Ain't nobody gonna stop me.

434
00:28:28,806 --> 00:28:31,442
No heavyweight in the world's
fast enough to stop me.

435
00:28:31,475 --> 00:28:35,813
- Who's the greatest?
- Who you gonna fight next?

436
00:28:39,250 --> 00:28:42,320
Float like a butterfly,
sting like a bee.

437
00:28:42,353 --> 00:28:45,456
Float like a butterfly,
sting like a bee.

438
00:28:45,489 --> 00:28:48,059
Float like a butterfly,
sting like a bee.

439
00:28:48,092 --> 00:28:50,328
Float like a butterfly,
sting like a bee.

440
00:28:50,361 --> 00:28:53,831
Say, "Float like a butterfly,
sting like a bee."

441
00:28:56,567 --> 00:29:00,505
- Sting like a fly like a bee.
- Who's your daddy?

442
00:29:03,874 --> 00:29:05,209
Say it. Say it for Daddy.

443
00:29:05,242 --> 00:29:07,512
Float like a bee,
sting like a bee.

444
00:29:07,545 --> 00:29:11,316
- What's your daddy's name?
- Muhammad Ali!

445
00:29:16,153 --> 00:29:19,090
Why do you insist on being
called Muhammad Ali now?

446
00:29:19,123 --> 00:29:21,125
That's the name given to me
by my leading teacher,

447
00:29:21,158 --> 00:29:23,795
the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
That's my original name.

448
00:29:23,828 --> 00:29:26,097
That's a black man name. Cassius
Clay was my slave name.

449
00:29:26,130 --> 00:29:29,133
- I'm no longer a slave.
- What does it mean?

450
00:29:29,166 --> 00:29:32,904
Muhammad means "worthy of all
praises," and Ali means "most high."

451
00:29:33,738 --> 00:29:35,738
Do you intend to
fight under that name?

452
00:29:35,740 --> 00:29:38,876
Yes, sir. I wanna be called by that name.
I write autographs with that name.

453
00:29:38,909 --> 00:29:41,436
I wanna be known all over
the world as that name.

454
00:29:48,419 --> 00:29:51,455
What attracted you then to
Islam in the first instance?

455
00:29:51,488 --> 00:29:55,493
The Muslim religion is the true
teachings of Elijah Muhammad

456
00:29:55,526 --> 00:29:56,527
right there in America.

457
00:29:56,561 --> 00:30:00,364
No power structure.
Nobody will challenge him.

458
00:30:00,397 --> 00:30:04,168
And the history of ourselves, the
history of our true religion,

459
00:30:04,201 --> 00:30:06,904
our nationality, our names.

460
00:30:06,937 --> 00:30:09,373
See, we don't have our names,
you know.

461
00:30:09,406 --> 00:30:13,211
I notice how proud you all
are, proud of your names.

462
00:30:13,244 --> 00:30:16,414
See, Chinese have names
like Chan, Chong, Lu, Chin.

463
00:30:16,447 --> 00:30:18,282
This is Islamic teachings.

464
00:30:18,315 --> 00:30:21,485
The Russians have names
like Kosygin or Khrushchev.

465
00:30:21,518 --> 00:30:25,323
You have names like O'Connell
or Grady or Kennedy.

466
00:30:25,356 --> 00:30:30,428
And, Africans have names
like Kalumumba, Nkrumah.

467
00:30:30,461 --> 00:30:34,565
And Jews got names
like Weinstein and Goldberg.

468
00:30:34,598 --> 00:30:40,504
And Italians got names like Dundee
and Benvenuti and Marciano.

469
00:30:40,537 --> 00:30:43,975
But we have names like Grady
and Clay and Hawkins and Smith

470
00:30:44,008 --> 00:30:47,245
and Jones and Johnson,
but we are black.

471
00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:49,347
- These are the slave names?
- Yeah.

472
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:51,983
So when I heard this I knew the truth.
It's history.

473
00:30:52,016 --> 00:30:56,921
So Muhammad Ali is a beautiful black name.
The name of our ancestors.

474
00:30:56,954 --> 00:31:00,892
So when I heard this, I just had to
walk out of the church and Christianity

475
00:31:00,925 --> 00:31:03,347
'cause they never taught us
our true knowledge.

476
00:31:06,563 --> 00:31:09,200
You were born
in nineteen-sixty-what?

477
00:31:09,233 --> 00:31:11,502
- Eight.
- 1968.

478
00:31:11,535 --> 00:31:14,606
Daddy won the title of 1964.

479
00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:18,342
That's four years.

480
00:31:18,375 --> 00:31:21,613
Four years after I won
my title, you were born.

481
00:31:22,579 --> 00:31:24,649
I was in exile at
that time, you know.

482
00:31:24,682 --> 00:31:27,351
They took my title because
I didn't go to Vietnam.

483
00:31:27,384 --> 00:31:29,987
- Do you remember that?
- Yes, sir.

484
00:31:30,020 --> 00:31:32,323
You were too small to
remember, but it's history.

485
00:31:32,356 --> 00:31:35,293
- But I know about it.
- You know about it.

486
00:31:46,834 --> 00:31:48,940
When I was growing up,
he was growing up.

487
00:31:48,973 --> 00:31:53,411
He was younger than me, but he was
a big figure in the Olympics.

488
00:31:53,444 --> 00:31:56,614
He had a tremendous personality.

489
00:31:56,647 --> 00:32:01,385
And he had an attitude
about being black.

490
00:32:01,418 --> 00:32:06,524
And, that was my game.
That's what I was.

491
00:32:06,557 --> 00:32:08,726
The black man has
been brainwashed

492
00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:11,495
and it's time for him to learn
something about hisself.

493
00:32:11,528 --> 00:32:14,265
When you look at television,
you see White Owl Cigars.

494
00:32:14,298 --> 00:32:18,302
White Swan soap. SkinWhite soap.
White Rain hair rinse.

495
00:32:18,335 --> 00:32:23,040
White Tornado floor wax. White
floss toothpaste. You go, he...

496
00:32:23,073 --> 00:32:25,643
They taught him when he was a little
boy that Mary had a little lamb,

497
00:32:25,676 --> 00:32:27,478
his fleece was white as snow.

498
00:32:27,511 --> 00:32:29,747
Then they taught
him about Snow White.

499
00:32:29,780 --> 00:32:33,985
Then there's the White House.

500
00:32:34,018 --> 00:32:37,655
When you look at television, you see
these two cars, one black and one white,

501
00:32:37,688 --> 00:32:40,591
and they put a gallon of gas
in each one...

502
00:32:42,693 --> 00:32:45,629
To see which car
can go the farthest.

503
00:32:45,662 --> 00:32:49,767
And every time the black car stopped
first and the white car just kept going.

504
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,702
So this brainwashes the negro.
See?

505
00:32:51,735 --> 00:32:56,307
I always followed him,
got a chance to know him,

506
00:32:56,340 --> 00:32:59,377
got a chance to work with him.

507
00:32:59,410 --> 00:33:00,711
He was just a part of my life

508
00:33:00,744 --> 00:33:04,749
and, he goes back
as far as my memory goes.

509
00:33:21,765 --> 00:33:25,469
Clay's first taste of military life,
and quite possibly his only one,

510
00:33:25,502 --> 00:33:27,605
was at the induction,
or call-up centre,

511
00:33:27,638 --> 00:33:29,607
at the Old Post Office
building in Houston.

512
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,076
Just before lunch.
It's all over.

513
00:33:32,109 --> 00:33:35,079
But Clay is not telling what
happened in the private ceremony

514
00:33:35,112 --> 00:33:38,783
where one pace forward would have
meant acceptance of the call-up.

515
00:33:44,388 --> 00:33:50,094
Why should me and other so-called
negroes go 10,000 miles,

516
00:33:50,127 --> 00:33:54,498
away from home here in America
to drop bombs and bullets

517
00:33:54,531 --> 00:34:00,104
on other innocent, brown people
who's never bothered us?

518
00:34:00,137 --> 00:34:03,107
And, I will say directly,

519
00:34:03,140 --> 00:34:10,782
"No, I will not go 10,000 miles
to, help kill innocent people."

520
00:34:15,686 --> 00:34:18,656
Muhammad Ali refused the
draft to go into Vietnam.

521
00:34:18,689 --> 00:34:21,559
He believed it was
an unjust and unholy war.

522
00:34:21,592 --> 00:34:24,795
He said if the Vietnamese came
over and attacked this country,

523
00:34:24,828 --> 00:34:27,765
he would be
the first one to defend it.

524
00:34:30,701 --> 00:34:36,140
John Wooten, the Executive Director
of the Black Economic Union,

525
00:34:36,173 --> 00:34:40,644
I called him because I wanted him
to get the top black athletes

526
00:34:40,677 --> 00:34:44,448
to have a meeting with Muhammad
Ali to give him an opportunity

527
00:34:44,481 --> 00:34:46,684
to tell his side of the story,

528
00:34:46,717 --> 00:34:51,122
because there were so many
rumors about, his life

529
00:34:51,155 --> 00:34:54,125
and not going into service
and his religion.

530
00:34:54,158 --> 00:34:59,864
And we felt that if we got the truth
from him and we believed him,

531
00:34:59,897 --> 00:35:03,501
that we would be a body
that would support him.

532
00:35:03,534 --> 00:35:05,703
And I felt he needed a lot
of support at the time

533
00:35:05,736 --> 00:35:09,207
because he was challenging
the United States Government.

534
00:35:14,845 --> 00:35:17,581
Nine top negro athletes meet
with Cassius Clay

535
00:35:17,614 --> 00:35:20,518
to discuss his
anti-draft stand.

536
00:35:20,551 --> 00:35:25,689
They include Bill Russell, Lew Alcindor,
and former pro footballer Jimmy Brown.

537
00:35:25,722 --> 00:35:30,194
Everybody had a chance to
talk to him, to question him,

538
00:35:30,227 --> 00:35:32,630
to give their opinions,
to give their thoughts.

539
00:35:32,663 --> 00:35:37,535
And it was a fantastic meeting
because at no time did Ali indicate

540
00:35:37,568 --> 00:35:41,639
that he would go into service
under any circumstances.

541
00:35:41,672 --> 00:35:45,609
Says Brown, the champ is sincere
in his religious beliefs.

542
00:35:45,642 --> 00:35:49,213
He believes in his religion and his
stand is based wholly on that.

543
00:35:49,246 --> 00:35:51,749
Clay's induction refusal
cost him his title

544
00:35:51,782 --> 00:35:55,186
and he faces a possible
five-year prison sentence.

545
00:35:55,219 --> 00:35:58,589
He claims exemption as a minister
of the Black Muslim faith.

546
00:35:59,790 --> 00:36:05,763
Each and every individual
there, admired tremendously

547
00:36:05,796 --> 00:36:10,267
because Muhammad Ali had
become a Muslim.

548
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:12,903
At the time
called a Black Muslim,

549
00:36:12,936 --> 00:36:17,274
and that was a highly
controversial organization.

550
00:36:17,307 --> 00:36:20,578
And anyone that was associated
with them

551
00:36:20,611 --> 00:36:24,748
was going to really feel
the wrath of the system.

552
00:36:24,781 --> 00:36:28,919
The so-called Black Muslims
in America at the time,

553
00:36:28,952 --> 00:36:30,754
Malcolm X, Elijah Muhammad.

554
00:36:32,689 --> 00:36:34,374
It was very, very controversial.

555
00:36:35,859 --> 00:36:41,365
Malcolm X was, um, a charismatic man.
A feared man, by many.

556
00:36:42,566 --> 00:36:46,971
The power structure
had successfully created,

557
00:36:47,004 --> 00:36:52,743
the image of the American negro as
someone with no confidence, no militancy

558
00:36:52,776 --> 00:36:56,947
and, they had done this
by giving him images of heroes

559
00:36:56,980 --> 00:36:59,817
that weren't truly militant
or confident.

560
00:36:59,850 --> 00:37:03,921
And now here come Cassius, the
exact contrast of everything

561
00:37:03,954 --> 00:37:07,024
that, was representative
of the negro image.

562
00:37:07,057 --> 00:37:10,027
He said he was the greatest. All
of the odds were against him.

563
00:37:10,060 --> 00:37:13,564
He upset the oddsmakers. He won.
He became victorious.

564
00:37:13,597 --> 00:37:16,300
He became the champ.
They knew that as soon as,

565
00:37:16,333 --> 00:37:20,838
if people began to identify with Cassius
and the type of image he was creating,

566
00:37:20,871 --> 00:37:22,911
they were going to have
trouble out of these negroes

567
00:37:22,939 --> 00:37:25,376
because they'd have negroes
walking around the streets

568
00:37:25,409 --> 00:37:26,831
saying, "I'm the greatest."

569
00:38:25,068 --> 00:38:29,106
I could name you 20 activists

570
00:38:29,139 --> 00:38:34,878
that had a part in the change
in this country.

571
00:38:34,911 --> 00:38:38,716
You were living in a state
of discrimination and racism.

572
00:38:38,749 --> 00:38:43,120
And so there were the outstanding
individuals who would risk everything.

573
00:38:43,153 --> 00:38:50,361
The Panthers took up arms. I mean,
it was a time of people standing up

574
00:38:50,394 --> 00:38:53,831
and other people cowering down.

575
00:38:53,864 --> 00:38:56,734
So there were
a lot of individuals

576
00:38:56,767 --> 00:39:01,939
that were risking not only
their careers, but their life.

577
00:39:01,972 --> 00:39:04,842
That was a time of...
of social revolution.

578
00:39:06,843 --> 00:39:12,716
We are not seeking to lose
our identity in blood mixing

579
00:39:12,749 --> 00:39:14,785
and our beautiful
Black African history.

580
00:39:14,818 --> 00:39:18,822
We don't hate you. We don't hate
those of you who are white.

581
00:39:18,855 --> 00:39:23,727
We just wanna stay black. We love my color.
I just love myself.

582
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:29,700
I think that, on a personal
level, I've been around him

583
00:39:29,733 --> 00:39:35,773
and there's a couple of things about
him that I think are really beautiful.

584
00:39:35,806 --> 00:39:37,742
First of all, he loves people.

585
00:39:38,809 --> 00:39:43,781
I thought that was a great trait

586
00:39:43,814 --> 00:39:49,720
and he had a way of relating to
people and making them feel good.

587
00:39:49,753 --> 00:39:51,155
And he used to say to me,

588
00:39:51,188 --> 00:39:53,891
"Come on, Jim, let's walk in the
neighborhood and talk to the people."

589
00:39:53,924 --> 00:39:56,493
"Yeah, that's all right,
I'll go with you."

590
00:39:56,526 --> 00:40:01,465
Meet the people, go into the barber shops.
Go into the, hair salons.

591
00:40:01,498 --> 00:40:04,435
And, he didn't
dislike white people.

592
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:09,473
He just didn't like what a lot
of white people stood for,

593
00:40:09,506 --> 00:40:11,909
but when we went to England,
he enjoyed the English.

594
00:40:11,942 --> 00:40:16,213
He would even party in my suite
with the English people,

595
00:40:16,246 --> 00:40:18,182
particularly young ladies.

596
00:40:18,215 --> 00:40:23,921
But... So his heart,
and his compassion for people,

597
00:40:23,954 --> 00:40:29,793
was bigger than just black people and
I think that's important to know.

598
00:40:29,826 --> 00:40:32,496
And then he had
a lot of courage.

599
00:40:32,529 --> 00:40:36,567
The risk he had to take and then to be
isolated, to have his crown taken away.

600
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:42,239
Not be able to make a living.
That was difficult.

601
00:40:42,272 --> 00:40:48,078
And to keep an attitude about himself,
to keep that personality moving

602
00:40:48,111 --> 00:40:51,048
even though inside
he had to be suffering a lot.

603
00:40:51,081 --> 00:40:54,518
Clay now faces a nomadic
existence of uncertain duration

604
00:40:54,551 --> 00:40:58,222
divided between courthouses and
meeting houses all over America.

605
00:40:58,255 --> 00:41:03,794
His occupation's gone. He seems
unlikely to box again for a long time.

606
00:41:03,827 --> 00:41:07,197
Patriots deride him.
The Peace Party applaud him.

607
00:41:07,230 --> 00:41:10,234
His Black Muslim friends
keep him from faltering.

608
00:41:10,267 --> 00:41:12,936
It's doubtful whether he has
the intellectual equipment

609
00:41:12,969 --> 00:41:15,072
to evaluate these pressures,

610
00:41:15,105 --> 00:41:17,941
but under them all he keeps
a dignity and repose

611
00:41:17,974 --> 00:41:21,912
which make it difficult to maintain
that he's either cowardly or dishonest.

612
00:42:01,618 --> 00:42:04,187
I hooked him up
with a fella in New York City,

613
00:42:04,220 --> 00:42:06,123
and he had him doing
the college lecturing

614
00:42:06,156 --> 00:42:08,926
and he went out on
the college campuses

615
00:42:08,959 --> 00:42:12,229
and he did the lecturing and
all the colleges loved him.

616
00:42:12,262 --> 00:42:16,867
He was accepted Harvard, Yale,
Princeton, Columbia, Penn.

617
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:20,604
All of the schools, the bigger
schools, and he was like their hero.

618
00:42:30,647 --> 00:42:34,618
I'm very
flattered in coming here,

619
00:42:34,651 --> 00:42:40,023
because you never could have made me
believe years ago when I was a...

620
00:42:40,056 --> 00:42:42,993
When I got out of high school
with a D minus average.

621
00:42:44,928 --> 00:42:47,823
And they gave me the "minus"
because I won the Olympics.

622
00:42:50,634 --> 00:42:53,704
I understand that,
out of people such as y'all

623
00:42:53,737 --> 00:42:56,940
come presidents and
governors and mayors

624
00:42:56,973 --> 00:43:01,345
and great doctors and physicians
and scientists and everything.

625
00:43:01,378 --> 00:43:05,649
So I said, "Well, to get something
together, to talk to these people,

626
00:43:05,682 --> 00:43:09,620
it's gotta be pretty heavy."

627
00:43:15,091 --> 00:43:20,230
So I didn't bring
no notes with me.

628
00:43:24,267 --> 00:43:26,136
You are happy to
have thrown away

629
00:43:26,169 --> 00:43:30,040
perhaps the greatest sports career
since the war for the ideals.

630
00:43:30,073 --> 00:43:31,953
I haven't thrown it away.
I haven't lost it.

631
00:43:31,975 --> 00:43:35,345
I would say I turned it down.
I'm not...

632
00:43:35,378 --> 00:43:38,048
See, the greatest sports title
mean nothing, mister,

633
00:43:38,081 --> 00:43:41,218
if you cannot be free, see?

634
00:43:41,251 --> 00:43:45,756
Boys in Vietnam are throwing
away, you may say, their lives.

635
00:43:45,789 --> 00:43:48,425
I haven't did that much.
I'm still living.

636
00:43:48,458 --> 00:43:53,196
They are dying today to free
somebody they don't know,

637
00:43:53,229 --> 00:43:57,267
so what in the hell is a heavyweight
title and a few stinking dollar bills

638
00:43:57,300 --> 00:43:59,103
for my people's freedom?

639
00:44:32,302 --> 00:44:35,806
I'm an advertising guy, and the,
editor of Esquire, Harold Hayes,

640
00:44:35,839 --> 00:44:40,444
came to me and, was reading about
me being a hotshot art director.

641
00:44:43,446 --> 00:44:46,316
I had seen, footage
of Muhammad fighting.

642
00:44:46,349 --> 00:44:49,352
I said, "Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Whoa!"

643
00:44:49,385 --> 00:44:51,188
"What?
Whoa. This kid is something."

644
00:44:51,221 --> 00:44:53,757
Yeah! Where's he at?

645
00:44:53,790 --> 00:44:57,795
I'm the king of the ring! I'm
the biggest thing in history!

646
00:44:59,195 --> 00:45:02,466
A young black kid with a
big mouth, talking sense.

647
00:45:02,499 --> 00:45:05,402
Yeah,
it was wonderful back then.

648
00:45:05,435 --> 00:45:08,338
I mean, they were still hanging
guys down in the South.

649
00:45:08,371 --> 00:45:13,844
Ali refused to be drafted
during the Vietnam War,

650
00:45:13,877 --> 00:45:15,045
and because of that

651
00:45:15,078 --> 00:45:20,250
he lost the very best boxing
years he had during that time

652
00:45:20,283 --> 00:45:22,753
because boxers
don't last forever.

653
00:45:24,187 --> 00:45:28,058
And so Lois,
who was the cover art director

654
00:45:28,091 --> 00:45:31,881
of Esquire magazine at the time, said,
"Why don't we do him as a martyr?"

655
00:45:34,656 --> 00:45:36,867
I said to Harold Hayes,
the editor, I said,

656
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:40,103
"I think Muhammad Ali's a great man.
How about you?"

657
00:45:40,136 --> 00:45:43,440
He said, "Yeah, I think so." So
he said, "What do you wanna do?"

658
00:45:43,473 --> 00:45:45,809
"I'm gonna have him posing
as Saint Sebastian."

659
00:45:45,842 --> 00:45:47,878
"A martyr to his country,
a martyr to his religion,

660
00:45:47,911 --> 00:45:50,114
as a martyr to what he thinks
about life."

661
00:45:51,581 --> 00:45:56,086
"Wow." I call up Muhammad
and so he comes to New York

662
00:45:56,119 --> 00:46:00,423
and, I show him a postcard
of a Saint Sebastian painting

663
00:46:00,456 --> 00:46:04,861
where the body was in repose,
but his head was in torment.

664
00:46:04,894 --> 00:46:08,231
And I said, "Muhammad, I want you to
pose like this. I want you to..."

665
00:46:08,264 --> 00:46:13,871
And he looks at it and he says, "Hey,
George, this cat's a Christian."

666
00:46:15,105 --> 00:46:17,407
I said, "Holy Moses,
you're right, Muhammad."

667
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,112
"Yeah, yeah, Saint Sebastian."

668
00:46:22,145 --> 00:46:23,513
And I realized very quickly

669
00:46:23,546 --> 00:46:27,518
he was saying a Muslim
can't pose as a Christian.

670
00:46:29,285 --> 00:46:33,223
Whoa. Gotta do this cover.
What, what...

671
00:46:34,557 --> 00:46:36,860
"I can't do it."
"What can we do?"

672
00:46:36,893 --> 00:46:41,531
"Can we call Elijah Muhammad?"
"I guess so."

673
00:46:41,564 --> 00:46:44,267
Have a little bit of a
conversation, puts me on the phone

674
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:49,539
and I had, like, a 15-minute talk
about religion and symbolism

675
00:46:49,572 --> 00:46:55,846
and image making, etc, etc,
with Elijah Muhammad.

676
00:46:55,879 --> 00:46:58,882
It was a funny conversation.
I wish I had a tape of it.

677
00:46:58,915 --> 00:47:01,351
And, finally, Elijah Muhammad
said to me, "Young man,"

678
00:47:01,384 --> 00:47:07,591
and I was a young man then, "I think
it would make a terrific image."

679
00:47:17,567 --> 00:47:21,171
It took a long time because
the arrows kept falling down

680
00:47:21,204 --> 00:47:25,576
and Ali had to stand still,
which is not his style.

681
00:47:26,643 --> 00:47:28,945
But he was very cooperative,
very helpful.

682
00:47:28,978 --> 00:47:31,982
We made funny stories
and kept him amused.

683
00:47:33,650 --> 00:47:40,224
He's posing, hands behind his back,
head in pain, head in anguish.

684
00:47:41,958 --> 00:47:43,493
Beautiful image.

685
00:47:43,526 --> 00:47:48,598
And we're starting to shoot, trying to
photograph, and he said, "Hey, George."

686
00:47:48,631 --> 00:47:50,934
I said, "What, Muhammad?"
"Hey, George."

687
00:47:50,967 --> 00:47:54,905
I said, "Muhammad, what?
Pose. Do your job. Come on."

688
00:47:54,938 --> 00:47:58,575
"Hey, George." When he does three
"Hey, George"s, you've gotta...

689
00:47:58,608 --> 00:48:01,678
He wants to say something.
"What?"

690
00:48:01,711 --> 00:48:06,483
And slowly but surely, he pointed
to each of the arrows and he said,

691
00:48:06,516 --> 00:48:11,521
"Lyndon Johnson, General
Westmoreland, Robert McNamara,

692
00:48:11,554 --> 00:48:17,227
Dean Rusk, Carl Clifford,
Hubert Humphrey."

693
00:48:17,260 --> 00:48:19,396
He pointed to six tormentors

694
00:48:19,429 --> 00:48:22,432
that had fired the arrows
that were out to get him.

695
00:48:22,465 --> 00:48:27,337
I was stunned how bright
it was, how smart.

696
00:48:27,370 --> 00:48:30,240
How almost poignant.

697
00:48:30,273 --> 00:48:36,513
When the cover came out, it absolutely
blew the minds of millions of people.

698
00:48:36,546 --> 00:48:38,615
I mean, I've had hundreds
of people come up to me

699
00:48:38,648 --> 00:48:41,952
and talk to me about what
that cover did to them.

700
00:48:41,985 --> 00:48:46,256
If you didn't wanna fight in the war, you
were a coward or you were a traitor.

701
00:48:46,289 --> 00:48:52,429
And... or you were a nerd
or you were fearful, etc.

702
00:48:52,462 --> 00:48:56,666
And along... and along comes
the most manly person,

703
00:48:56,699 --> 00:48:58,668
forget about fighter,
that ever lived

704
00:48:58,701 --> 00:49:03,340
and he became an incredible symbol
specifically to young people, you know.

705
00:49:03,373 --> 00:49:07,010
So I'm proud of it for,
not only for helping Muhammad,

706
00:49:07,043 --> 00:49:09,513
but helping to
fight against the war.

707
00:49:24,060 --> 00:49:26,429
Finally he got the license back.

708
00:49:26,462 --> 00:49:29,466
He said, "Well, maybe we should
get our own training camp."

709
00:49:29,499 --> 00:49:34,304
So that's what we did. I mean,
here's a guy as big as he was.

710
00:49:34,337 --> 00:49:36,439
He didn't have to pay someone
to have to rent their gym.

711
00:49:36,472 --> 00:49:42,479
He had his own place and he designed all
of it. He called it Fighter's Heaven.

712
00:49:54,090 --> 00:49:58,395
These are the little ponies
we bought just for children.

713
00:49:58,428 --> 00:50:02,399
In summertime
when the children come up,

714
00:50:02,432 --> 00:50:05,469
we saddle up ponies and let
'em ride around on 'em.

715
00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:09,539
- Heckle and Jekyll.
- Heckle and Jekyll?!

716
00:50:09,572 --> 00:50:12,642
Yeah. Heckle and Jekyll,
Mutt and Jeff.

717
00:50:12,675 --> 00:50:16,613
Heckle and Jekyll,
and Mutt and Jeff.

718
00:50:16,646 --> 00:50:20,517
My wife. My wife names
all these horses.

719
00:50:20,550 --> 00:50:24,554
These cabins and things you see, we
built all this from the ground up.

720
00:50:24,587 --> 00:50:30,060
And I always, as a kid, wanted
to train in a real training camp

721
00:50:30,093 --> 00:50:34,097
with the logs and the rocks
and the trees and the woods.

722
00:50:34,130 --> 00:50:38,134
We had hotel bills, so I built my own
cabins for the fighters to stay in.

723
00:50:38,167 --> 00:50:41,536
Then we had eating bills, so I
built my own kitchen around heres.

724
00:50:47,610 --> 00:50:51,181
His mom and dad would come up
and cook, and his Aunt Coretta.

725
00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:56,519
That was his domain. He loved it.
He loved every part of it.

726
00:50:56,552 --> 00:51:01,158
His brother Rahaman was there. It
was something that he created.

727
00:51:05,194 --> 00:51:08,465
- This is my brother here, Rahaman Ali.
- Hi.

728
00:51:08,498 --> 00:51:12,669
He just... he just got up.
He likes to sleep and eat.

729
00:51:12,702 --> 00:51:14,838
He just got up.
He's come to get a comb.

730
00:51:14,871 --> 00:51:17,607
He works hard, so it's why
he's gotta sleep and eat.

731
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,543
He works so hard.
I put 'em all to work.

732
00:51:20,576 --> 00:51:22,545
The comb should be
in the restroom there.

733
00:51:22,578 --> 00:51:26,416
Always open to the public. All
the people would come by there,

734
00:51:26,449 --> 00:51:30,453
and it was really like the
boxing shrine of the world.

735
00:51:30,486 --> 00:51:34,657
He enjoyed it and there was a lot of
great champions came up there to train.

736
00:51:34,690 --> 00:51:36,954
A lot of celebrities came by
to visit there.

737
00:51:42,766 --> 00:51:45,869
I went up to his training camp
and I got in the ring with him.

738
00:51:45,902 --> 00:51:49,572
You know, just for...
Just for fun.

739
00:51:49,605 --> 00:51:51,774
So, um, I said, you know,
"Take it easy, you know,

740
00:51:51,807 --> 00:51:56,179
because how are we gonna get around,
you know, how are we gonna do this?"

741
00:51:56,212 --> 00:52:00,055
"Don't worry about it." He said, "Just
don't worry about it. Just get in."

742
00:52:00,783 --> 00:52:03,486
So then he
started to, you know...

743
00:52:03,519 --> 00:52:06,156
And then tried to wind me up
a little bit, you know,

744
00:52:06,189 --> 00:52:10,260
and he said, "Trigger. You called me
Trigger, right? It was Trigger, right?"

745
00:52:10,293 --> 00:52:13,897
I said, "I didn't call you
anything." "Yes, you did," you know.

746
00:52:13,930 --> 00:52:15,798
So we just...
So then we started.

747
00:52:15,831 --> 00:52:17,800
So he said, you know,
"Throw something at me."

748
00:52:17,833 --> 00:52:20,837
So I threw a, um, a left jab
and a right cross.

749
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:25,508
You know, not hard, because I
didn't want him to hit me.

750
00:52:25,541 --> 00:52:27,777
So it was like, you know, bang,
bang and they both connected

751
00:52:27,810 --> 00:52:31,881
and he threw out a left, you
know, just automatically

752
00:52:31,914 --> 00:52:36,920
that, you know, just caught me.
The end of it just caught me.

753
00:52:36,953 --> 00:52:39,889
And I thought,
"Oh, you know, my teeth,"

754
00:52:39,922 --> 00:52:42,892
because I wasn't wearing
any, um, mouthpieces.

755
00:52:42,925 --> 00:52:46,229
You know, it was just a
friendly little thing there.

756
00:52:46,262 --> 00:52:50,233
But just to stand in the ring with
this man and just, you know...

757
00:52:50,266 --> 00:52:52,502
He would telegraph everything
he was throwing at me.

758
00:52:52,535 --> 00:52:55,738
You know, it was only,
thank God, a bit of fun.

759
00:52:55,771 --> 00:53:00,777
And just to block his arms
coming at you, you know,

760
00:53:00,810 --> 00:53:05,715
even though you knew each one he
was just, you know, doing that...

761
00:53:05,748 --> 00:53:07,150
I thought, "Good God."

762
00:53:07,183 --> 00:53:13,523
I mean, to get in there to fight this
man for real must be terrifying.

763
00:53:13,556 --> 00:53:15,658
So then Ali says
to me, you know,

764
00:53:15,691 --> 00:53:18,828
"Just, just throw one,
you know, for the..."

765
00:53:18,861 --> 00:53:23,200
So I said, "Oh, OK," you know. So
I went like this and he dropped.

766
00:53:24,734 --> 00:53:27,804
And he's on the, you know,
in the ring on the floor

767
00:53:27,837 --> 00:53:30,873
and, you know, and I'm standing
over him like, like this.

768
00:53:30,906 --> 00:53:34,744
'Cause, you know,
it's just for publicity.

769
00:53:34,777 --> 00:53:37,880
And, apparently,
Gene Kilroy was telling me

770
00:53:37,913 --> 00:53:41,284
that, um, when the photos went
all over the world,

771
00:53:41,317 --> 00:53:47,657
some of Ali's fans were concerned and
said that, um, Ali should stop now.

772
00:53:47,690 --> 00:53:49,993
If Tom Jones can knock him
down, you know what I mean,

773
00:53:50,026 --> 00:53:52,829
then he should stop boxing.

774
00:54:00,002 --> 00:54:02,639
We were in Deer Lake,
Pennsylvania, one time

775
00:54:02,672 --> 00:54:05,708
and there was a little boy
there who looked frail

776
00:54:05,741 --> 00:54:08,311
and he wanted to
meet Muhammad Ali.

777
00:54:08,344 --> 00:54:12,582
I said, "No problem," and I
brought the boy in and his dad.

778
00:54:12,615 --> 00:54:14,215
Muhammad looked at the boy
and he said,

779
00:54:14,217 --> 00:54:19,689
"Why do you have this hot wool hat on?"
He said, "It's so hot out there today."

780
00:54:19,722 --> 00:54:23,826
He said, "I got leukemia and I lost
all my hair. I'm getting this chemo."

781
00:54:23,859 --> 00:54:25,161
And Ali said,
"I'll tell you what."

782
00:54:25,194 --> 00:54:28,458
"I'm gonna beat George Foreman
and you're gonna beat leukemia."

783
00:54:29,398 --> 00:54:30,633
The boy looked at him.

784
00:54:30,666 --> 00:54:33,824
He said, "Oh, I hope you're
right, Ali, I hope you're right."

785
00:54:36,806 --> 00:54:40,877
I went and I got my camera and I took
a picture of the little boy and Ali.

786
00:54:42,778 --> 00:54:47,383
And I got the father's address.
I had Ali write on the picture,

787
00:54:47,416 --> 00:54:51,888
"I am gonna beat George Foreman
and you're gonna beat cancer."

788
00:54:51,921 --> 00:54:53,923
"God bless you, Muhammad Ali."

789
00:54:56,058 --> 00:55:01,764
So about two weeks later I get a call.
It said, the boy's father, he said,

790
00:55:01,797 --> 00:55:05,802
"Jimmy's very sick. He's in the
University of Pennsylvania Hospital."

791
00:55:05,835 --> 00:55:10,873
"He's not gonna make it, but the thrill
of his life was meeting Muhammad Ali."

792
00:55:10,906 --> 00:55:14,711
I said, "Jeez, I'm sorry to hear it.
Is there anything we can do?" "No."

793
00:55:14,744 --> 00:55:17,747
So that next morning
we're doing roadwork,

794
00:55:17,780 --> 00:55:21,050
4:30 in the morning before the
sun is up, when he can run,

795
00:55:21,083 --> 00:55:22,652
and I tell him about the boy.

796
00:55:22,685 --> 00:55:25,021
He said, "OK,
here's what we're gonna do."

797
00:55:25,054 --> 00:55:27,123
"When I get done,
my exercise and all,

798
00:55:27,156 --> 00:55:29,630
we take a shower,
we head down to the hospital."

799
00:55:31,027 --> 00:55:33,830
So we go down to the University
of Pennsylvania Hospital,

800
00:55:33,863 --> 00:55:36,065
a two-hour ride,
and we went in.

801
00:55:36,098 --> 00:55:38,701
Here's the little boy
with a white sheet.

802
00:55:38,734 --> 00:55:42,472
White kid,
no hair, big blue eyes.

803
00:55:42,505 --> 00:55:45,441
And he said, "Muhammad,
I knew you would come."

804
00:55:45,474 --> 00:55:48,378
And Muhammad reached
and he held the little boy.

805
00:55:48,411 --> 00:55:53,483
He said, "Remember, I told you
that you are gonna beat cancer

806
00:55:53,516 --> 00:55:57,787
and I'm gonna beat George Foreman
and that's the way it's gonna be."

807
00:55:57,820 --> 00:55:59,756
And the little boy said,
"No, Muhammad,

808
00:55:59,789 --> 00:56:03,960
I'm gonna meet God and I'm gonna
tell Him that I know you."

809
00:56:07,763 --> 00:56:10,711
There wasn't a word said in
the two-hour ride going back.

810
00:56:16,505 --> 00:56:18,708
About a week later,
the little boy died.

811
00:56:18,741 --> 00:56:22,478
The father called me and Ali said he
didn't want to go to the funeral.

812
00:56:22,511 --> 00:56:26,449
It was too sad.
So I went over to the funeral

813
00:56:26,482 --> 00:56:32,822
and in the casket, they had the boy laid
out and they had the picture there.

814
00:56:32,855 --> 00:56:36,025
"I'm gonna beat George Foreman,
you're gonna beat cancer."

815
00:56:38,494 --> 00:56:43,733
The boy was gonna go to Heaven and say
he was a friend of Muhammad Ali's

816
00:56:43,766 --> 00:56:45,868
to get a better
seat or a better place.

817
00:56:45,901 --> 00:56:48,270
That's... that's a great
compliment, isn't it?

818
00:56:58,914 --> 00:57:00,149
- Muhammad?
- What?

819
00:57:00,182 --> 00:57:04,086
I bet you don't know your ABCs.
I do!

820
00:57:04,119 --> 00:57:05,988
- No, you don't.
- Yes, I do!

821
00:57:06,021 --> 00:57:07,156
Let me hear you.

822
00:57:07,189 --> 00:57:11,027
A, B, C, D, E, F, G

823
00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:14,764
Oh, wa, go, go, L, M, N, O, P

824
00:57:14,797 --> 00:57:17,900
Q, R, S, T, U, V

825
00:57:17,933 --> 00:57:21,471
W, X, Y and Z

826
00:57:21,504 --> 00:57:24,974
Now I know my ABCs

827
00:57:25,007 --> 00:57:28,110
Won't you come and play with me?

828
00:57:28,143 --> 00:57:31,781
Hey, hey. Ooh, I
love you, Muhammad.

829
00:57:31,814 --> 00:57:37,120
I just love you so much. I think
about you every day. I miss you.

830
00:57:42,892 --> 00:57:46,529
It doesn't come to me
as him being famous.

831
00:57:46,562 --> 00:57:50,066
He's being Dad.
It really didn't faze me any

832
00:57:50,099 --> 00:57:54,270
because I feel like everybody
else, like Dad is Dad.

833
00:57:54,303 --> 00:57:58,040
I grew up with Rasheda,
Jamillah and Maryum.

834
00:57:58,073 --> 00:58:03,613
We was a close-knit family and we
knew about our other siblings.

835
00:58:03,646 --> 00:58:07,884
We would go, like, say we had summer
or winter break out of school,

836
00:58:07,917 --> 00:58:11,554
we would go to California where
he stayed at the Fremont Place

837
00:58:11,587 --> 00:58:14,824
and we would meet up with
all of our other siblings.

838
00:58:14,857 --> 00:58:18,160
We had fun.
We'd swim in pool, bike ride.

839
00:58:18,193 --> 00:58:21,631
He used to always do
magic tricks and stuff.

840
00:58:25,334 --> 00:58:30,239
I had a bit of a problem in school
because a lot of kids wanted to see

841
00:58:30,272 --> 00:58:33,910
if I could fight like my father,
and I really didn't wanna do so.

842
00:58:33,943 --> 00:58:36,312
So they would pick on me a lot.

843
00:58:36,345 --> 00:58:41,618
I never really wanted to be in the
limelight. It's really no life for me.

844
00:58:43,185 --> 00:58:46,155
I just wanted to
be a normal child.

845
00:58:48,357 --> 00:58:53,029
He actually said to me, "I
don't want you to be like me."

846
00:58:53,062 --> 00:58:54,664
"I want you to be
better than me."

847
00:58:54,697 --> 00:58:58,634
So how can you be better
than the greatest?

848
00:59:03,138 --> 00:59:04,340
The man's in trouble.

849
00:59:05,675 --> 00:59:10,012
Listen, George Foreman. People
are afraid of George Foreman.

850
00:59:10,045 --> 00:59:13,015
They talk about how hard he hits.
The world has been deceived.

851
00:59:13,048 --> 00:59:17,153
You listen to me now. I've never told
you wrong. The man don't hit hard.

852
00:59:17,186 --> 00:59:20,957
This will be the biggest upset
since Sonny Liston

853
00:59:20,990 --> 00:59:26,262
and I think it is befitting that I go
out of boxing just like I came in,

854
00:59:26,295 --> 00:59:31,133
defeating a big, bad monster
that nobody could destroy.

855
00:59:31,166 --> 00:59:34,270
A hard punch.
I'm the underdog.

856
00:59:34,303 --> 00:59:37,707
If he hits me, I'm in trouble,
like the Sonny Liston fight,

857
00:59:37,740 --> 00:59:41,644
but I came back and I shook
the world and I got Liston.

858
00:59:41,677 --> 00:59:43,946
Now it's ten years
since Sonny Liston.

859
00:59:43,979 --> 00:59:48,217
I'm meeting another big, bad,
strong monster, knock-out artist.

860
00:59:48,250 --> 00:59:52,054
He's a bully. He's slow.
He has no skill, no footwork.

861
00:59:52,087 --> 00:59:55,191
He's awkward
and I have given him a name.

862
00:59:55,224 --> 00:59:59,261
I named Floyd Patterson The Rabbit.
I named Sonny Liston The Bear.

863
00:59:59,294 --> 01:00:03,065
And he shall be known
officially as The Mummy.

864
01:00:04,366 --> 01:00:08,337
- The Mummy. Why?
- Why The Mummy?

865
01:00:08,370 --> 01:00:12,208
Because he fights, when he's fighting,
if you ever watch him in the ring,

866
01:00:12,241 --> 01:00:15,945
he, he, he, he drags like
that after his opponent.

867
01:00:20,983 --> 01:00:23,719
And how's The Mummy gonna
catch me?

868
01:00:23,752 --> 01:00:26,422
When you're fighting The Mummy, you
just keep a step ahead of The Mummy.

869
01:00:26,455 --> 01:00:27,423
- Yeah, yeah.
- See?

870
01:00:27,456 --> 01:00:29,058
Yeah, just move on, The Mummy.

871
01:00:29,091 --> 01:00:31,394
"No, Mummy, I'm over here.
No, Mummy, I'm over here."

872
01:00:31,427 --> 01:00:34,998
Yeah, no, you're moving too fast.
The Mummy don't move that fast.

873
01:00:36,331 --> 01:00:38,668
I remember the day we left
Deer Lake.

874
01:00:38,701 --> 01:00:40,736
We were going to Zaire, Africa.

875
01:00:40,769 --> 01:00:44,674
Before we left the camp, and Ali
ran in and he called Cus D'Amato.

876
01:00:44,707 --> 01:00:47,109
He said, "Cus,
how do I fight this guy?"

877
01:00:47,142 --> 01:00:50,212
Cus said, "He is a
bully-type individual.

878
01:00:50,245 --> 01:00:53,416
"Your first punch
must be with...

879
01:00:53,449 --> 01:00:57,019
with bad intentions,
devastating tenacity."

880
01:00:57,052 --> 01:01:00,690
I got on and I said, "Cus, look what
George Foreman did to Kenny Norton."

881
01:01:00,723 --> 01:01:02,992
"Look what he did
to Joe Frazier."

882
01:01:03,025 --> 01:01:05,327
And Cus yelled.
He was in New York.

883
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,397
I could have heard him from New
York to Deer Lake, Pennsylvania

884
01:01:08,430 --> 01:01:09,699
without the phone.

885
01:01:09,732 --> 01:01:12,335
He said,
"But they're not Ali!"

886
01:01:16,171 --> 01:01:20,376
We flew Air Zaire. All black
people, all black pilots.

887
01:01:20,409 --> 01:01:23,279
And on the way over Ali was saying to
them he wanted to meet the pilots.

888
01:01:23,312 --> 01:01:26,382
"How old are you? 23? 27?"

889
01:01:26,415 --> 01:01:29,719
Ali said, "See, if black people
get the chance to do it,

890
01:01:29,752 --> 01:01:32,354
they could do something
in life." He believed it.

891
01:01:32,387 --> 01:01:37,259
And all of a sudden we hit some
turbulence and Ali got a little scared.

892
01:01:37,292 --> 01:01:41,230
He said, "I hope those young pilots
are as smart as the old pilots."

893
01:01:41,263 --> 01:01:46,035
He talked about fighting George Foreman.
"Cus is right, he's a bully."

894
01:01:46,068 --> 01:01:48,647
"I know just what to do.
I know how to fight him."

895
01:02:06,068 --> 01:02:08,858
As we were walking off the
airplane, Ali turned to me.

896
01:02:08,891 --> 01:02:11,060
He said,
"Who don't they like here?"

897
01:02:11,093 --> 01:02:13,496
I said, "I guess they don't
like the white people."

898
01:02:13,529 --> 01:02:17,466
"No, no, I can't say George
Foreman's white. Who else?"

899
01:02:17,499 --> 01:02:22,438
I say, "The Belgians," and Ali yelled,
"George Foreman's a Belgian!"

900
01:02:22,471 --> 01:02:27,276
And everybody started yelling,
"Ali, boma y. Ali, boma y!"

901
01:02:27,309 --> 01:02:31,080
And I turned to our interpreter.
I said, "What did they say?"

902
01:02:31,113 --> 01:02:35,251
He said, "They say, 'Kill him.
Kill him.'"

903
01:02:35,284 --> 01:02:36,519
Muhammad Ali!

904
01:02:47,262 --> 01:02:48,531
Muhammad Ali!

905
01:02:56,271 --> 01:02:59,441
When George Foreman arrived
with his entourage,

906
01:02:59,474 --> 01:03:04,547
his sparring partners, here he
has one of his loyal companions,

907
01:03:04,580 --> 01:03:08,918
a German Shepherd dog
by the name of Diego.

908
01:03:08,951 --> 01:03:12,822
The Belgians used to put the German
Shepherds on the black people.

909
01:03:12,855 --> 01:03:14,357
I knew we were home free.

910
01:03:23,376 --> 01:03:25,534
It was a blessing that
we fought in Zaire,

911
01:03:25,567 --> 01:03:27,403
because no-one
could bother us.

912
01:03:27,436 --> 01:03:31,140
We had time for each other. You
know, we had our own cook there.

913
01:03:31,173 --> 01:03:33,509
We had our own movies.
We had it nice.

914
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:39,548
Ali loved it when his mom and
dad was there, and his brother.

915
01:03:39,581 --> 01:03:41,917
He wanted to make
'em proud of him.

916
01:03:41,950 --> 01:03:45,288
Show 'em what it was to really
achieve something in life.

917
01:03:48,223 --> 01:03:50,960
Getting back on George
Foreman, why he's not here?

918
01:03:50,993 --> 01:03:53,429
- Never mind about getting back on.
- What you mean, never mind?

919
01:03:53,462 --> 01:03:56,365
Why, he's always ducking.
That makes me mad.

920
01:03:56,398 --> 01:04:00,569
Sonny Liston killed the game and Floyd
Patterson fighting once a year,

921
01:04:00,602 --> 01:04:03,873
and now this man who was at a
press conference the other day.

922
01:04:03,906 --> 01:04:05,208
He wouldn't talk.

923
01:04:05,241 --> 01:04:07,943
He sends this bald-headed man over,
Dick Sadler, to talk for him.

924
01:04:07,976 --> 01:04:11,914
And then, then, then he
didn't show up the other day.

925
01:04:12,981 --> 01:04:14,617
Get off my head.

926
01:04:14,650 --> 01:04:18,988
Listen. I'm gonna float like a
butterfly and sting like a bee.

927
01:04:19,021 --> 01:04:21,991
George can't hit
what his eyes can't see.

928
01:04:22,024 --> 01:04:24,927
Now you see me, now you don't.

929
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,066
You think you will,
but I know you won't.

930
01:04:28,497 --> 01:04:31,333
Thank you, Ali.
Thank you, Angelo Dundee.

931
01:04:31,366 --> 01:04:32,646
Is that all the time I get?
OK.

932
01:04:32,668 --> 01:04:35,471
Thank you, Ben Degabula
and Dick Sadler.

933
01:04:35,504 --> 01:04:38,474
Don't do that, champ.
Get away, get away.

934
01:04:38,507 --> 01:04:41,677
Mobutu's
right-hand man came in.

935
01:04:41,710 --> 01:04:45,447
Said George Foreman cut his eye,
the fight may be called off.

936
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:49,318
I say, "Ali, if he leaves this
country, he will never fight you

937
01:04:49,351 --> 01:04:52,955
because you're not showing any fear,
you're not showing any respect."

938
01:04:52,988 --> 01:04:56,492
So I told him, "Take the
passports so they can't leave."

939
01:04:56,525 --> 01:05:00,596
If he would have left, there would
have never been an Ali-Foreman fight.

940
01:05:00,629 --> 01:05:03,365
The other day, messing around
the gymnasium, he got cut.

941
01:05:03,398 --> 01:05:05,434
He's doing everything
to get out of this fight.

942
01:05:05,467 --> 01:05:08,304
Then he almost had a car accident.
I don't know what's gonna happen.

943
01:05:08,337 --> 01:05:11,307
I just wanna see him that day
in the arena,

944
01:05:11,340 --> 01:05:13,976
because that's one place
he won't be able to duck.

945
01:05:14,009 --> 01:05:16,645
The vibrations are against him.
The planets are against him.

946
01:05:16,678 --> 01:05:19,415
And already, he's lost
the first five rounds.

947
01:05:19,448 --> 01:05:22,384
I'm gonna prove to the world
that I'm still the fastest,

948
01:05:22,417 --> 01:05:24,253
the prettiest,
the most classiest,

949
01:05:24,286 --> 01:05:27,456
the most scientific, the
greatest fighter of all time.

950
01:05:31,626 --> 01:05:34,396
The African people loved
Muhammad Ali.

951
01:05:34,429 --> 01:05:36,598
They thought he was a savior.

952
01:05:36,631 --> 01:05:40,269
Muhammad could have said to the
people when we went to the stadium,

953
01:05:40,302 --> 01:05:41,470
"I wanna be your president."

954
01:05:41,503 --> 01:05:45,507
Everybody would have followed him.
They loved him so much.

955
01:05:45,540 --> 01:05:48,978
It was unbelievable,
the power that this man had.

956
01:05:56,585 --> 01:06:03,025
There's a theory in life. It's said
that the strong will beat the weak.

957
01:06:03,058 --> 01:06:05,628
But the brains will beat
the strong every time.

958
01:06:10,732 --> 01:06:14,636
He said, "He's strong,
but he has no stamina."

959
01:06:14,669 --> 01:06:20,309
"He doesn't know what it's like.
Round five. Round six."

960
01:06:20,342 --> 01:06:24,613
"Round seven. Round eight.
I've got him."

961
01:06:34,523 --> 01:06:38,027
And that famous spin when he
was spinning, I told him,

962
01:06:38,060 --> 01:06:40,095
I said, "Why didn't you
hit him on the way down?"

963
01:06:40,128 --> 01:06:41,630
He said, "He had enough."

964
01:06:47,569 --> 01:06:50,639
If he would have spent
as much time in the art,

965
01:06:50,672 --> 01:06:54,143
painting and,
you know, or an artist,

966
01:06:54,176 --> 01:06:57,079
taking after his dad who was
in his genes,

967
01:06:57,112 --> 01:06:59,415
he might have
been a great artist.

968
01:06:59,448 --> 01:07:01,784
If he'd spent as
much time on the books,

969
01:07:01,817 --> 01:07:05,687
he might have been a great lawyer
'cause he relates to people.

970
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:10,092
Could you imagine him with a
Harvard degree out of law school,

971
01:07:10,125 --> 01:07:15,631
going before a jury? Wow.
Case dismissed.

972
01:07:15,664 --> 01:07:19,535
Oh, my God,
he's won the title back at 32!

973
01:07:28,481 --> 01:07:31,113
The fight with Muhammad Ali
was spectacular for me.

974
01:07:31,146 --> 01:07:34,450
It changed my life because I'd
never lost as a professional,

975
01:07:34,483 --> 01:07:37,820
and I'd intended to win the
easiest fight of my career.

976
01:07:40,722 --> 01:07:44,560
I'd get into the ring with the guy.
I bluffed him, I'd done everything.

977
01:07:44,593 --> 01:07:48,630
Beat him up, hey, basically
for about five or six rounds.

978
01:07:48,663 --> 01:07:49,664
I thought it was easy.

979
01:07:49,698 --> 01:07:52,568
Then about the sixth round
he whispered in my ear,

980
01:07:52,601 --> 01:07:56,738
after I'd hit him in the side,
"That all you got, George?"

981
01:07:56,771 --> 01:07:59,208
And that was about all I had.

982
01:08:05,714 --> 01:08:08,184
It turned into a nightmare then.

983
01:08:12,268 --> 01:08:14,690
Everybody expected me
to win that boxing match.

984
01:08:14,723 --> 01:08:18,627
All the oddsmakers had me
ahead to win by a knockout,

985
01:08:18,660 --> 01:08:19,595
as a matter of fact.

986
01:08:19,628 --> 01:08:22,565
And once I lost that fight,
I was devastated.

987
01:08:40,715 --> 01:08:42,651
I didn't understand losing.

988
01:08:42,684 --> 01:08:45,754
He knew something about that,
so he prepared himself.

989
01:08:45,787 --> 01:08:48,524
He reserved his
power and his strength.

990
01:08:48,557 --> 01:08:52,794
I had nothing in the back of my
mind to shield me or protect me.

991
01:08:52,827 --> 01:08:54,663
So I lie in devastation.

992
01:08:54,696 --> 01:08:57,900
George Foreman, the man who
was totally invincible.

993
01:08:57,933 --> 01:09:02,638
After I retired from boxing,
well, left boxing in the '70s,

994
01:09:02,671 --> 01:09:04,840
I became a minister at the
Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

995
01:09:04,873 --> 01:09:08,510
I'm still doing so.
And I realized that...

996
01:09:08,543 --> 01:09:09,811
A reporter asked me,

997
01:09:09,845 --> 01:09:13,248
"What happened in Africa, George?
Surely something happened?"

998
01:09:13,281 --> 01:09:17,252
And I admitted that I'd lost the
boxing match. I said, "I got proof."

999
01:09:17,285 --> 01:09:18,921
From that point on
I was able to cope,

1000
01:09:18,954 --> 01:09:21,924
because I realized not only
did I lose the boxing match,

1001
01:09:21,957 --> 01:09:24,726
but I lost to the greatest man
I've ever met.

1002
01:09:24,759 --> 01:09:26,444
Somebody who
would never give up.

1003
01:09:30,332 --> 01:09:33,502
George Foreman,
how are you doing?

1004
01:09:33,535 --> 01:09:37,239
Your name, as young as you
are, in my training camp,

1005
01:09:37,272 --> 01:09:41,610
me working with you, get your weight
down and you're not fighting for money.

1006
01:09:41,643 --> 01:09:44,580
God knows this in your heart.
You ain't gotta answer the man.

1007
01:09:44,613 --> 01:09:48,283
See, man judges man's actions.
God judges man's heart.

1008
01:09:48,316 --> 01:09:52,921
You go in the ring for God, now
you got the whole world shook up.

1009
01:09:52,954 --> 01:09:56,558
"George Foreman came back!" Now you
go out and you start preaching.

1010
01:09:56,591 --> 01:09:58,594
You got thousands of people
coming to you.

1011
01:09:58,627 --> 01:10:00,896
Don't go out a loser.
You go out a winner.

1012
01:10:00,929 --> 01:10:03,899
And this is
the wild idea I have.

1013
01:10:03,932 --> 01:10:06,668
Sometimes people come to me
and say, "What do you think?"

1014
01:10:06,701 --> 01:10:08,069
"Was Muhammad Ali
the greatest boxer?"

1015
01:10:08,103 --> 01:10:14,343
And I feel almost insulted, because
boxing was just something he did.

1016
01:10:14,376 --> 01:10:17,546
I mean, that's no way
to define Muhammad Ali.

1017
01:10:17,579 --> 01:10:21,884
He was one of the greatest men to ever
appear on the scene of the Earth.

1018
01:10:25,620 --> 01:10:28,357
- Let me ask Laila something.
- Wait. Y'all be quiet.

1019
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:30,826
Now, this is a microphone.

1020
01:10:30,859 --> 01:10:32,628
And when you get
to be a big girl,

1021
01:10:32,661 --> 01:10:34,830
I'm gonna play this back
so you can hear it.

1022
01:10:34,863 --> 01:10:38,367
Say what I say.
Say, "I love my daddy."

1023
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:41,970
I love my daddy.
I love my poo-poo head daddy.

1024
01:10:42,003 --> 01:10:45,374
Hana, OK. Wait, wait, wait. I'm
just gonna ask you a question.

1025
01:10:45,407 --> 01:10:48,043
- What's your mother's name, Hana?
- Veronica.

1026
01:10:48,076 --> 01:10:50,612
And, Laila,
what's your mother's name?

1027
01:10:50,645 --> 01:10:53,015
- Wonica.
- What's her name?

1028
01:10:53,048 --> 01:10:55,918
- Wonica.
- Verwonica?

1029
01:10:59,020 --> 01:11:02,924
I first met Muhammad
when I was 18 years old

1030
01:11:02,957 --> 01:11:06,028
and I was off from college
for the summer.

1031
01:11:06,061 --> 01:11:07,963
I didn't like him.

1032
01:11:07,996 --> 01:11:12,634
The only thing I really knew about
him was that he was a big mouth.

1033
01:11:12,667 --> 01:11:16,872
Um, the boys in high school
in chemistry class

1034
01:11:16,905 --> 01:11:18,907
were talking about the
Frazier fight and just...

1035
01:11:18,940 --> 01:11:23,612
I heard them talking about the
personality, so I made up my mind.

1036
01:11:23,645 --> 01:11:27,816
"Oh, I don't like this Muhammad Ali.
He's, like, a bragger and a big mouth."

1037
01:11:28,950 --> 01:11:32,921
Then we met again
in Africa, in Zaire.

1038
01:11:32,954 --> 01:11:38,660
I was helping promote the George
Foreman-Muhammad Ali fight at the time.

1039
01:11:38,693 --> 01:11:42,631
One of his entourage asked if
we wanted to go and meet him

1040
01:11:42,664 --> 01:11:44,232
and visit his training camp,

1041
01:11:44,266 --> 01:11:50,706
so I went with a few other people and he
didn't really pay any attention to me.

1042
01:11:50,739 --> 01:11:56,845
However, when it was time to go back,
we took a bus back, which was fun,

1043
01:11:56,878 --> 01:12:03,652
um, but Muhammad decided he was going
to ride on the bus back with us

1044
01:12:03,685 --> 01:12:07,422
and he ended up sitting with me
and talking to me the whole time.

1045
01:12:07,455 --> 01:12:12,894
My first thought was, "Wow, he's
really nice. He's very quiet."

1046
01:12:12,927 --> 01:12:16,665
He later told me it was because
he was afraid to say anything.

1047
01:12:16,698 --> 01:12:21,470
He didn't know what to say. But, um,
I thought, "Oh, he's really nice."

1048
01:12:21,503 --> 01:12:25,407
When the fight was postponed
and he kept inviting me back

1049
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:28,076
and, um, he told me
he was getting divorced.

1050
01:12:28,109 --> 01:12:32,814
He wasn't living with a wife
so I didn't know any better,

1051
01:12:32,847 --> 01:12:35,951
um, at the time,
in the very beginning.

1052
01:12:35,984 --> 01:12:41,923
But, um, he would give these
lectures on love and friendship

1053
01:12:41,956 --> 01:12:43,892
and I remember the moment
I fell in love with him

1054
01:12:43,925 --> 01:12:46,128
when he was...
gonna make me cry.

1055
01:12:50,899 --> 01:12:53,102
It was just very touching.

1056
01:12:56,738 --> 01:13:00,842
We actually got married, um,
when I was 21.

1057
01:13:00,875 --> 01:13:04,980
And, we had been together already
since I was 18 years old,

1058
01:13:05,013 --> 01:13:09,017
even though we did have
a wedding ceremony in Zaire,

1059
01:13:09,050 --> 01:13:11,854
which lots of
people don't realize.

1060
01:13:13,888 --> 01:13:15,891
Living with
Muhammad was never dull.

1061
01:13:15,924 --> 01:13:19,094
You never knew what you'd be
coming home to any given day.

1062
01:13:23,531 --> 01:13:28,904
I heard you breathing
and started to talk.

1063
01:13:28,937 --> 01:13:33,041
I could hear your big breath
breathing and so could that lady.

1064
01:13:34,909 --> 01:13:38,146
And don't you be playing that
in front of everybody.

1065
01:13:38,179 --> 01:13:41,116
I don't want everyone listening
to me talking on the phone.

1066
01:13:41,149 --> 01:13:43,485
- It could be history.
- No!

1067
01:13:43,518 --> 01:13:44,453
Why?

1068
01:13:44,486 --> 01:13:47,889
I'd rather have something else.

1069
01:13:47,922 --> 01:13:54,563
He took control of his destiny by
making himself accountable, um,

1070
01:13:54,596 --> 01:13:59,768
with things like his predictions where
he would, you know, say what round.

1071
01:13:59,801 --> 01:14:02,904
Then he'd sort of pretty
much live into his future

1072
01:14:02,937 --> 01:14:06,241
and be more,
um, pressured, actually

1073
01:14:06,274 --> 01:14:10,479
or accountable to do
what he had said he would do.

1074
01:14:10,512 --> 01:14:16,218
And, so he pretty much, I think,
mastered life in that way.

1075
01:14:18,820 --> 01:14:21,523
But now Hana's a little girl.

1076
01:14:21,556 --> 01:14:24,059
Now Hana's a little girl.

1077
01:14:24,092 --> 01:14:28,230
- She's three years old.
- She's three years old.

1078
01:14:28,263 --> 01:14:30,198
And one day
she'll be a big lady.

1079
01:14:30,231 --> 01:14:33,502
And one day she'll be a big lady

1080
01:14:33,535 --> 01:14:40,141
and grow up a pretty lady and she
never be a little lady no more.

1081
01:14:40,174 --> 01:14:43,111
Right. And be a pretty
lady like Momma.

1082
01:14:43,144 --> 01:14:47,182
And pretty, and be a
pretty lady like Veronica.

1083
01:14:50,118 --> 01:14:52,988
Come here, Hana.
Come here. Come on.

1084
01:14:53,021 --> 01:14:56,625
Each night before you
go to bed, my baby

1085
01:14:56,658 --> 01:15:02,097
Each night my...
go to bed, my baby

1086
01:15:02,130 --> 01:15:06,134
While I'm far away from you,
my baby

1087
01:15:09,037 --> 01:15:14,142
Those were, like, the idyllic,
um, fairy-tale days, I think.

1088
01:15:15,677 --> 01:15:17,045
We were always there,

1089
01:15:17,079 --> 01:15:22,250
whereas the other kids were, um,
in school and that type of thing

1090
01:15:22,283 --> 01:15:28,156
and he, um, he spent the most
time with both my daughters,

1091
01:15:28,189 --> 01:15:30,592
um, from the moment
they were born on.

1092
01:15:30,625 --> 01:15:33,204
We were always there.
We went everywhere with him.

1093
01:16:02,190 --> 01:16:08,163
He's a really good-hearted person.
Very sensitive.

1094
01:16:08,196 --> 01:16:13,268
And I guess I'm crying because
of his situation now, you know,

1095
01:16:13,301 --> 01:16:14,869
and I'll always love him.

1096
01:16:14,903 --> 01:16:20,308
It's... I mean, not, like, "in love,"
but, I mean, we've always been friends.

1097
01:16:20,341 --> 01:16:24,112
Um, it became hard to live with
him because of, you know...

1098
01:16:24,145 --> 01:16:29,651
Everyone knows, the whole world knows,
he wasn't faithful as a husband.

1099
01:16:29,684 --> 01:16:33,054
there's a story to that, too,
I think.

1100
01:16:33,087 --> 01:16:37,959
But, um, he's
an incredible human being.

1101
01:16:37,992 --> 01:16:42,063
He has a beautiful heart
and very sensitive.

1102
01:16:42,096 --> 01:16:45,166
I mean, he cries a lot.
People don't know that.

1103
01:16:45,199 --> 01:16:49,605
You know, when something touches him
he'll start crying, more than I do.

1104
01:16:51,406 --> 01:16:54,976
There are lots of people,
actors in movies,

1105
01:16:55,009 --> 01:16:57,679
playing great parts
and that are idolized,

1106
01:16:57,712 --> 01:17:01,216
but it's all a fantasy
and Muhammad was real.

1107
01:17:01,249 --> 01:17:07,088
He stood up for what he believed and
he was 100% sincere about all of that.

1108
01:17:07,121 --> 01:17:12,360
Um, and I think people
just feel the love,

1109
01:17:12,393 --> 01:17:14,763
that genuine love
that comes from him.

1110
01:17:14,796 --> 01:17:17,766
It emanates from him
and people can feel that.

1111
01:17:27,375 --> 01:17:32,247
At that time in the '70s you very rarely
see the big stars come to Newcastle.

1112
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:36,184
Incredibly, Muhammad Ali turned up.
Not only did he come,

1113
01:17:36,217 --> 01:17:40,722
he had just been married a couple
of months before to Veronica Porche

1114
01:17:40,755 --> 01:17:43,291
and they had their wedding
blessed in a local mosque.

1115
01:17:43,324 --> 01:17:46,161
It's a far cry from
fashionable Beverly Hills.

1116
01:17:46,194 --> 01:17:50,231
The mosque comes as a surprise in the
industrial heart of South Shields.

1117
01:17:50,264 --> 01:17:54,135
The children of the traditional Muslim
community here were out in force

1118
01:17:54,168 --> 01:17:56,805
to greet the champion
and his bride, Veronica.

1119
01:18:03,144 --> 01:18:05,113
There were so many things
to say.

1120
01:18:05,146 --> 01:18:08,149
I wanted to tell him I was his
greatest fan of all times.

1121
01:18:08,182 --> 01:18:11,252
I wanted so many things in me heart
and in me head I wanted to tell him.

1122
01:18:11,285 --> 01:18:14,089
He's my hero
and I've got a poem for him.

1123
01:18:14,122 --> 01:18:17,492
My poem goes, "Muhammad, I
welcome you here to my town."

1124
01:18:17,525 --> 01:18:21,429
"You come here with no furious frown,
plus your heavyweight boxing crown."

1125
01:18:21,462 --> 01:18:24,199
"Oh, Great One, oh, Great One,
enjoy your stay."

1126
01:18:24,232 --> 01:18:26,301
So afterwards I
used to write to him.

1127
01:18:26,334 --> 01:18:29,037
Writing to him in America,
writing to his training camp,

1128
01:18:29,070 --> 01:18:32,407
and saying the things that I wanted to
say to him when he was in Newcastle.

1129
01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:33,862
And this went on for years.

1130
01:18:44,049 --> 01:18:47,155
"Russell, Russell, Russell! It's
Muhammad Ali on the phone!"

1131
01:18:47,188 --> 01:18:50,068
I thought she was just winding us up
because we were just watching him.

1132
01:18:50,091 --> 01:18:51,793
We're still watching him
on the television.

1133
01:18:51,826 --> 01:18:54,329
And I thought... I just ignore her.
I was still watching.

1134
01:18:54,362 --> 01:18:56,531
She says, "Hurry up! He'll put
the phone down. Hurry up."

1135
01:18:56,564 --> 01:18:59,300
So, you know, obviously there
was something behind it.

1136
01:18:59,333 --> 01:19:02,203
I run into the kitchen. "Muhammad,
is that you, Muhammad?"

1137
01:19:02,236 --> 01:19:04,472
"Yeah,
Russ, it's me, Muhammad Ali."

1138
01:19:04,505 --> 01:19:08,343
And it was... it was like... you
couldn't believe it was happening.

1139
01:19:08,376 --> 01:19:10,512
And he says, "I'll give you a
date when you can come over."

1140
01:19:10,545 --> 01:19:13,181
He says, "Russ, you don't need no hotel.
You can..."

1141
01:19:13,214 --> 01:19:15,083
"I have a room for you.
You can stay in me home."

1142
01:19:15,116 --> 01:19:19,154
I was like...
You know, I was, like, stuck for words.

1143
01:19:19,187 --> 01:19:21,523
I goes, "Muhammad, don't say
that if you don't mean it."

1144
01:19:21,556 --> 01:19:24,083
He says, "I wouldn't say it
if I didn't mean it."

1145
01:19:38,206 --> 01:19:39,574
It was fabulous.

1146
01:19:39,607 --> 01:19:42,577
It was surreal, really,
I mean, the house itself.

1147
01:19:42,610 --> 01:19:46,214
If you ever watch the Rocky
films, in Rocky III,

1148
01:19:46,247 --> 01:19:48,316
you see Rocky living
in a big white mansion.

1149
01:19:48,349 --> 01:19:50,585
That was Muhammad Ali's house
in 1984.

1150
01:19:50,618 --> 01:19:54,889
That was the house that
he gave me a room to stay

1151
01:19:54,922 --> 01:19:56,858
and take us out through
the days and going out

1152
01:19:56,891 --> 01:19:58,611
and meeting the people
and meeting the fans.

1153
01:19:58,626 --> 01:20:01,429
And to be there with him and
see it and be on the inside,

1154
01:20:01,462 --> 01:20:05,266
it was so special for me. Like,
a very special, special time.

1155
01:20:05,299 --> 01:20:10,372
The greatest! Muhammad
Ali, assalamu alaikum.

1156
01:20:22,617 --> 01:20:25,386
You look beautiful.
I love you. Bye-bye.

1157
01:20:25,419 --> 01:20:27,889
- Ali in three.
- Au revoir, Ali.

1158
01:20:32,994 --> 01:20:36,898
It's very hard for when you see
people who've been in with Muhammad,

1159
01:20:36,931 --> 01:20:40,335
who've been so ingrained with Muhammad.
It cannot leave them.

1160
01:20:40,368 --> 01:20:44,873
I only had a very small piece of being
with Muhammad, but it never left me

1161
01:20:44,906 --> 01:20:47,642
'cause they were personal times
and they were very special.

1162
01:20:47,675 --> 01:20:50,645
Did you... Did you spend
the night yesterday?

1163
01:20:50,678 --> 01:20:52,413
- Yeah.
- Where?

1164
01:20:52,446 --> 01:20:55,517
Dad let us stay at your house
last night.

1165
01:21:03,491 --> 01:21:06,361
Yeah, your daddy let me stay
last night.

1166
01:21:06,394 --> 01:21:09,197
- You slept in her bed?
- No, he stayed somewhere.

1167
01:21:09,230 --> 01:21:13,534
- Mine? A big white bed?
- I don't know whose bed.

1168
01:21:13,567 --> 01:21:18,206
- I don't know.
- The room with the big long doors?

1169
01:21:18,239 --> 01:21:21,376
- I slept on the floor.
- Get out the way!

1170
01:21:21,409 --> 01:21:24,946
Hana, you're ruining it.
I want this kinda bike.

1171
01:21:24,979 --> 01:21:26,314
Daddy?

1172
01:21:28,015 --> 01:21:29,517
Daddy?

1173
01:21:29,550 --> 01:21:36,491
Hana, this is 1979.
November the, 12th

1174
01:21:36,524 --> 01:21:39,294
and it's about 8:00pm.

1175
01:21:39,327 --> 01:21:41,663
Me and Veronica was going out
to have dinner.

1176
01:21:41,696 --> 01:21:43,631
- Now?
- Yeah.

1177
01:21:43,664 --> 01:21:44,665
No!

1178
01:21:44,699 --> 01:21:46,534
Why you don't want us go
and have dinner?

1179
01:21:46,567 --> 01:21:48,469
I want you to eat here.

1180
01:21:48,502 --> 01:21:50,438
You want me to eat here?

1181
01:21:50,471 --> 01:21:54,275
- I'm going to eat with Mommy.
- I don't want you to.

1182
01:21:54,308 --> 01:21:57,512
You don't want me to. Why?
I don't want you to.

1183
01:21:57,545 --> 01:22:01,482
How old are you? How old are you?
Say, "I'm three years old."

1184
01:22:01,515 --> 01:22:04,452
"I'm three
years old," like that.

1185
01:22:04,485 --> 01:22:06,587
Well, I'm gonna take Momma
to have some dinner.

1186
01:22:06,620 --> 01:22:11,259
I don't want you to.
Well, you wanna come with?

1187
01:22:11,292 --> 01:22:15,296
I don't think that I would, say
that my father was very strict.

1188
01:22:15,329 --> 01:22:19,534
He had very strong beliefs
and values and whatnot,

1189
01:22:19,567 --> 01:22:21,336
but he wasn't really too strict.

1190
01:22:21,369 --> 01:22:23,409
I actually remember when I
was young and growing up,

1191
01:22:23,437 --> 01:22:26,674
knowing that I wasn't allowed
to ask my father for something,

1192
01:22:26,707 --> 01:22:30,545
like, it was ice cream after hours
or, you know, Daddy's a "yes" man.

1193
01:22:30,578 --> 01:22:32,413
He was the "yes" man.
Everything was "yes."

1194
01:22:32,446 --> 01:22:34,682
- OK.
- I want to, Daddy.

1195
01:22:34,715 --> 01:22:38,319
- I'll let you go tonight.
- I want to, Daddy.

1196
01:22:38,352 --> 01:22:41,689
OK, you can go tonight.
Just stop saying it, OK?

1197
01:22:41,722 --> 01:22:46,394
Even from that early age, I realized
that his "yes" wasn't enough.

1198
01:22:46,427 --> 01:22:48,363
So I say to him,
"Are you gonna ask Mommy?"

1199
01:22:48,396 --> 01:22:50,531
"I need to hear her tell me
too." So I ran into the room.

1200
01:22:50,564 --> 01:22:53,501
I ask my mother for permission. When
she says "yes," then I know I can go.

1201
01:22:53,534 --> 01:22:57,572
Daddy take you.
I just can't help it. You...

1202
01:22:57,605 --> 01:23:01,075
I want you to ask Mommy, too.

1203
01:23:01,108 --> 01:23:04,412
Yeah, I'll let you go.
Right.

1204
01:23:04,445 --> 01:23:06,414
I would not say
there was a difference

1205
01:23:06,447 --> 01:23:08,316
between my father publicly
and privately,

1206
01:23:08,349 --> 01:23:11,319
because he's
always very charismatic.

1207
01:23:11,352 --> 01:23:14,756
Always looking to entertain,
make you smile, make you laugh.

1208
01:23:14,789 --> 01:23:17,325
It's not something
he really turned on.

1209
01:23:17,358 --> 01:23:21,429
But at the same time he would turn it
up a notch, I think, for the crowd.

1210
01:23:21,462 --> 01:23:24,799
But he is always Muhammad Ali,
even at home, you know?

1211
01:23:24,832 --> 01:23:26,234
He was always joking.

1212
01:23:26,267 --> 01:23:29,337
I'd come home from school and he'd
be sitting behind his office desk

1213
01:23:29,370 --> 01:23:34,609
and sometimes he'd have a little wire,
um, arrow going through his head,

1214
01:23:34,642 --> 01:23:38,413
just with a little bit of red
blood, pretending that he was dead.

1215
01:23:38,446 --> 01:23:40,806
And we'd come home and find
him and we're so used to him,

1216
01:23:40,815 --> 01:23:43,751
we just say, "Oh, Daddy,"
and jump in his lap anyway,

1217
01:23:43,784 --> 01:23:46,120
and just didn't even
acknowledge it, you know.

1218
01:23:46,153 --> 01:23:48,456
When I meet Joe Frazier,

1219
01:23:48,489 --> 01:23:53,127
this will be like a good amateur
fighting a real professional.

1220
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,696
This will be like a kid
out of the Olympics

1221
01:23:55,729 --> 01:23:59,734
meeting the fastest heavyweight
champion that ever lived.

1222
01:23:59,767 --> 01:24:01,169
This will be no contest.

1223
01:24:01,202 --> 01:24:03,771
What do you say, Joe?
What do you say to that?

1224
01:24:03,804 --> 01:24:06,441
I say he's nothing but a
bunch of noise, that's all.

1225
01:24:06,474 --> 01:24:09,444
This is the day, man. You understand?
I just want you to...

1226
01:24:09,477 --> 01:24:12,447
You're not fighting Quarry, you're
not fighting Oscar Bonavena,

1227
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:15,149
you're not fighting Sonny Liston.
You're fighting Joe Frazier.

1228
01:24:15,182 --> 01:24:16,551
Everybody knows that.

1229
01:24:18,752 --> 01:24:23,124
They had a big rivalry, um,
back in the '70s, early '70s.

1230
01:24:23,157 --> 01:24:27,662
It was a pretty heavy thing, you know.
Um, you know, it was rough.

1231
01:24:27,695 --> 01:24:29,597
It was rough.

1232
01:24:29,630 --> 01:24:32,533
Well, I think
that Ali is probably clowning,

1233
01:24:32,566 --> 01:24:37,505
but there is no question in my mind
that Joe Frazier is not clowning.

1234
01:24:37,538 --> 01:24:41,542
They threw off their respective
earpieces, microphones.

1235
01:24:41,575 --> 01:24:43,411
Joe Frazier's watch came off.

1236
01:24:43,444 --> 01:24:45,613
There was
a wrestling bout on the floor

1237
01:24:45,646 --> 01:24:49,884
and we're really very sorry
this happened.

1238
01:24:49,917 --> 01:24:53,554
And there's no question about it. Joe
Frazier is leaving the studio now

1239
01:24:53,587 --> 01:24:56,891
and he is deeply upset about
Ali calling him ignorant.

1240
01:24:56,924 --> 01:24:58,426
I'm sorry, Joe.

1241
01:24:58,459 --> 01:25:00,728
I'm getting sick and tired
of all this mess.

1242
01:25:00,761 --> 01:25:04,499
Joe Frazier, the heavyweight
champion of the world,

1243
01:25:04,532 --> 01:25:07,568
clumsy, ugly,
flat-footed Joe Frazier.

1244
01:25:07,601 --> 01:25:09,604
I'll show you what
a real champion is.

1245
01:25:09,637 --> 01:25:12,874
Said that he was an Uncle Tom.
Said he was ugly.

1246
01:25:12,907 --> 01:25:15,877
Said he was a gorilla, you know,

1247
01:25:15,910 --> 01:25:19,847
and Pop just said, "Well, I'm
going to do what you say I do."

1248
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:22,723
"You say I'm a gorilla, I'm
gonna be a gorilla on you."

1249
01:25:24,718 --> 01:25:29,724
As a man, Pop was a... he was
like a little puppy dog, man.

1250
01:25:29,757 --> 01:25:33,861
He was a calm, gentle, kind...

1251
01:25:33,894 --> 01:25:36,197
He was the kind of person that,

1252
01:25:36,230 --> 01:25:40,501
everybody would want to be
their best friend, you know.

1253
01:25:40,534 --> 01:25:43,271
Mom didn't say too much.
She was always calm.

1254
01:25:43,304 --> 01:25:44,906
She was always collected
and she'd, like,

1255
01:25:44,939 --> 01:25:47,208
"Oh, don't worry about it, son.
It'll be all right."

1256
01:25:47,241 --> 01:25:50,811
And I said, "That's not right, Mom, what
they're saying about Daddy," you know.

1257
01:25:50,844 --> 01:25:53,848
"It's not right what they're saying.
They call him this, they call him that."

1258
01:25:53,881 --> 01:25:57,092
"Don't worry about it, honey. The
Good Lord will work it out."

1259
01:25:58,852 --> 01:26:01,189
I met Mr Ali in New York, man.

1260
01:26:01,222 --> 01:26:02,924
He was like,
"Oh, you're Joe's son.

1261
01:26:02,957 --> 01:26:04,926
How are you doing, son?
How are you doing?"

1262
01:26:04,959 --> 01:26:06,399
"You're looking
all right there."

1263
01:26:06,427 --> 01:26:10,322
But, you know, Pop on the other side,
he was like, "I'm coming to get you."

1264
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:18,673
The heavyweight champion
of the world, Joe Frazier!

1265
01:26:20,641 --> 01:26:22,777
He was more like a fireball

1266
01:26:22,810 --> 01:26:26,781
because of the things that,
Mr Ali was saying to him.

1267
01:26:26,814 --> 01:26:30,518
It really, you know,
got down into his heart

1268
01:26:30,551 --> 01:26:33,821
because here was a guy
that help another brother.

1269
01:26:33,854 --> 01:26:36,791
To help him when everybody was
against him

1270
01:26:36,824 --> 01:26:39,961
because of not going to the
war, you know what I mean?

1271
01:26:39,994 --> 01:26:43,231
And then he was the one to
help him get his license back,

1272
01:26:43,264 --> 01:26:46,267
and then for him to say the
things that he said to him

1273
01:26:46,300 --> 01:26:49,904
was kinda hard for my dad.
He couldn't understand it.

1274
01:26:49,937 --> 01:26:53,774
Hundreds of millions are seeing
this bout around the world.

1275
01:26:53,807 --> 01:26:56,244
A packed house at
Madison Square Garden.

1276
01:26:56,277 --> 01:26:59,647
And I believe in that, first
fight, that my dad, he wanted,

1277
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,417
you know, he wanted to get him.
He wanted to get him.

1278
01:27:04,921 --> 01:27:06,921
Why do you think he beat you,
Muhammad?

1279
01:27:06,954 --> 01:27:10,791
Well, the reason that he got
the decision,

1280
01:27:10,824 --> 01:27:15,596
if you looked at my face and his face
after the fight, both eyes were closed.

1281
01:27:15,629 --> 01:27:18,633
His nose is blood, his lips
was cut, his head was swollen

1282
01:27:18,666 --> 01:27:21,636
and he spent one month in the hospital.
And did you all hear it?

1283
01:27:21,669 --> 01:27:23,004
Yeah, surely.

1284
01:27:23,037 --> 01:27:27,642
He spent 30 days in intensive care.
No phone calls, no visitors.

1285
01:27:27,675 --> 01:27:31,812
Now that's a terrible beating when you
have to stay resting for 30 days.

1286
01:27:31,845 --> 01:27:36,851
But he got the decision. But I'm not
complaining. Next time I'll get him.

1287
01:27:36,884 --> 01:27:40,588
I remember, um, being at an autograph
signing and a lot of the, you know,

1288
01:27:40,621 --> 01:27:42,890
different sports figures would
be there signing autographs,

1289
01:27:42,923 --> 01:27:44,225
and Joe Frazier
was there at one.

1290
01:27:44,258 --> 01:27:46,861
And my father and him were passing
each other in the hallway

1291
01:27:46,894 --> 01:27:49,897
and I remember my father was so
excited to just see Joe Frazier.

1292
01:27:49,930 --> 01:27:51,332
He started jumping up and down
and say,

1293
01:27:51,365 --> 01:27:54,068
"Come on, Joe, let's play for...
let's show off for the cameras."

1294
01:27:54,101 --> 01:27:56,337
And Joe Frazier just sort of
put his hand up,

1295
01:27:56,370 --> 01:27:58,739
looked at him and
kept on walking.

1296
01:27:58,772 --> 01:28:01,075
And I remember thinking, "Why
did he just do that to Daddy?"

1297
01:28:01,108 --> 01:28:04,612
So that's when I learned,
you know, of the pain

1298
01:28:04,645 --> 01:28:08,416
or the, you know, the hostility
or the anger that he still felt.

1299
01:28:08,449 --> 01:28:11,653
That he had not let go of
or forgiven my father for yet.

1300
01:28:15,889 --> 01:28:20,027
My father was told,
actually, about Joe Frazier

1301
01:28:20,060 --> 01:28:21,462
and everything
that he went through

1302
01:28:21,495 --> 01:28:26,100
and he read about how his children
would come home from school crying

1303
01:28:26,133 --> 01:28:30,805
and my father just put his head down
silently and started to cry himself.

1304
01:28:30,838 --> 01:28:33,102
It really upset...
it hurt him to know that.

1305
01:28:41,282 --> 01:28:45,086
And I think also a part of him admired
Joe Frazier. He was a great athlete.

1306
01:28:45,119 --> 01:28:48,055
At the time in which Joe
Frazier came into the picture,

1307
01:28:48,088 --> 01:28:51,058
there was a lot of probably different
emotions my father was dealing with

1308
01:28:51,091 --> 01:28:52,827
in taking
the stands that he took.

1309
01:28:52,860 --> 01:28:55,930
Then Joe Frazier
sort of, in his mind,

1310
01:28:55,963 --> 01:29:00,668
became representative of what he would
say, you know, was going on in the world

1311
01:29:00,701 --> 01:29:02,703
and what was being done wrong
to blacks at that time.

1312
01:29:02,736 --> 01:29:05,806
So when he got in that
position, the new champion,

1313
01:29:05,839 --> 01:29:09,043
and my father never actually
lost that title in the ring.

1314
01:29:09,076 --> 01:29:12,880
Unfortunately for Joe Frazier, he
just sort of became this fixture

1315
01:29:12,913 --> 01:29:14,749
that just represented all that.

1316
01:29:14,782 --> 01:29:18,753
Oh, he definitely had respect
for my father, we know that.

1317
01:29:18,786 --> 01:29:21,722
I know that and I
really realized it,

1318
01:29:21,755 --> 01:29:24,091
like, 'cause after
the fight in Manila,

1319
01:29:24,124 --> 01:29:25,960
he came to me and he said,

1320
01:29:25,993 --> 01:29:28,996
"You know, hey, all the things
I said about,

1321
01:29:29,029 --> 01:29:33,000
about the family and your
dad, please, you know,

1322
01:29:33,033 --> 01:29:35,803
tell your father, you know,
I apologize about that."

1323
01:29:35,836 --> 01:29:39,106
But Pop wanted to hear it from
him for himself, that's all.

1324
01:29:39,139 --> 01:29:43,744
In the end, before,
my father passed away,

1325
01:29:43,777 --> 01:29:47,848
he and Ali came together in love and
unity and oneness of the spirit.

1326
01:29:47,881 --> 01:29:49,950
And, man,
I was so happy to see that.

1327
01:29:49,983 --> 01:29:53,921
They hugged, embraced and, it
was something cool, you know.

1328
01:29:53,954 --> 01:29:56,891
That was fantastic.

1329
01:30:10,037 --> 01:30:10,972
Yeah?

1330
01:30:11,005 --> 01:30:14,542
There's a story
in today's "Post"

1331
01:30:14,575 --> 01:30:17,812
that you're gonna go up to Deer
Lake and start training again.

1332
01:30:17,845 --> 01:30:19,046
There is?

1333
01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:23,150
Yeah, so what they're saying
is you're gonna come back.

1334
01:30:23,183 --> 01:30:26,120
- That'll shock 'em, won't it?
- Yeah.

1335
01:30:26,153 --> 01:30:27,721
- That'll shock 'em!
- Listen...

1336
01:30:27,755 --> 01:30:32,059
I'll come back for the fourth time.
I'll take my crown for the fourth time.

1337
01:30:32,092 --> 01:30:34,762
I hope it's not true,
between you and me.

1338
01:30:34,795 --> 01:30:36,197
Well...

1339
01:30:36,230 --> 01:30:40,034
Because, you've conquered all
the worlds you could conquer.

1340
01:30:40,067 --> 01:30:43,170
Can you imagine? Can you
imagine four-time champion?

1341
01:30:43,203 --> 01:30:45,773
but what do you need with it,
Muhammad?

1342
01:30:45,806 --> 01:30:47,808
Don't need it.
What do you need with it?

1343
01:30:47,841 --> 01:30:49,041
Just talking.
I'm just talking.

1344
01:30:49,042 --> 01:30:51,545
Nobody is ever gonna be
a three-time champion again.

1345
01:30:51,578 --> 01:30:53,981
I know. Nobody. Not
in our lifetime.

1346
01:30:54,014 --> 01:30:56,484
- I'm just talking.
- Yeah, yeah.

1347
01:31:05,292 --> 01:31:09,063
Many people wanna know
why am I doing this.

1348
01:31:09,096 --> 01:31:14,068
Champion, why? I say, "Why?
Because it is there."

1349
01:31:15,102 --> 01:31:20,508
Why did we go to the moon?
Because it's there.

1350
01:31:20,541 --> 01:31:25,212
We're not satisfied. Now we're
mapping out a plan to go to Mars.

1351
01:31:25,245 --> 01:31:28,816
Why? Why Mars?
Ain't the moon far enough?

1352
01:31:28,849 --> 01:31:30,518
Mars, because it's there

1353
01:31:30,551 --> 01:31:34,221
and there's the possibility and
a chance of us reaching it.

1354
01:31:34,254 --> 01:31:38,526
Why am I coming back?
Because it's there.

1355
01:31:38,559 --> 01:31:44,532
- All right, here it is.
- A comeback by Muhammad Ali.

1356
01:31:44,565 --> 01:31:46,967
Drama of the Bahamas is
now about to begin.

1357
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:48,135
Drama in the Bahamas.

1358
01:31:48,168 --> 01:31:53,974
They say, "No." We close the
doors, you're finished.

1359
01:31:54,007 --> 01:31:56,977
But if the guy they said
"No" to is Muhammad Ali,

1360
01:31:57,010 --> 01:31:59,880
they said "No" to the greatest
of all time.

1361
01:32:01,915 --> 01:32:05,319
I can remember my father's last
fight with Trevor Berbick.

1362
01:32:05,352 --> 01:32:08,989
We were at Deer Lake, his training camp.
He called it Fighter's Heaven.

1363
01:32:09,022 --> 01:32:13,928
And, um, Daddy would run up the hill.
He called it Agony Hill.

1364
01:32:13,961 --> 01:32:18,265
And I would follow behind him
and behind that would be a car

1365
01:32:18,298 --> 01:32:20,334
that would be there
for when he got tired.

1366
01:32:20,367 --> 01:32:25,573
And, um, just riding, riding alongside
with him, jogging up the hill.

1367
01:32:25,606 --> 01:32:29,009
I was probably five, I would think.
Four or five.

1368
01:32:29,042 --> 01:32:31,879
They say I'm old.
Do I look old to you?

1369
01:32:41,989 --> 01:32:43,305
I don't know. I'm pretty.

1370
01:32:44,625 --> 01:32:49,029
He did used to say that it was
hard to get up and have to train

1371
01:32:49,062 --> 01:32:50,530
and do those things.

1372
01:32:50,564 --> 01:32:53,100
You know, put your body through that
when you're already comfortable in life.

1373
01:32:53,133 --> 01:32:55,093
You have a big house,
you have the money you need.

1374
01:32:55,102 --> 01:32:57,905
But when you're trying to make
it and you have this hunger

1375
01:32:57,938 --> 01:32:59,938
and this need to prove to
yourself and to the world

1376
01:32:59,940 --> 01:33:01,942
how great and wonderful you
are, it's a lot easier.

1377
01:33:01,975 --> 01:33:04,945
So at that time in his life
he was, what, 38 years old.

1378
01:33:04,978 --> 01:33:08,048
He already had Parkinson's,
although it was undiagnosed.

1379
01:33:08,081 --> 01:33:10,161
People saw, you know, you
could hear it in his voice.

1380
01:33:10,183 --> 01:33:14,088
The slurred speech and the, you know,
the discoordination in his movement.

1381
01:33:14,121 --> 01:33:18,158
Um, but no-one really
knew what it was, so...

1382
01:33:18,191 --> 01:33:21,195
There it is. It's all over.
What a fight.

1383
01:33:21,228 --> 01:33:22,863
A tremendous fight.

1384
01:33:22,896 --> 01:33:24,331
A very good fight.

1385
01:33:24,364 --> 01:33:28,335
Ali in much better condition
than they thought he would be.

1386
01:33:28,368 --> 01:33:32,272
Everybody here feels now
that Ali really won the fight.

1387
01:33:32,305 --> 01:33:33,740
Berbick is walking around.

1388
01:33:33,773 --> 01:33:37,044
He's been holding his hands up in the
air as though he did win the fight.

1389
01:33:37,077 --> 01:33:39,046
However, there is a look
of gloom in his eyes,

1390
01:33:39,079 --> 01:33:43,083
as though he may have figured that
he did lose it by a decision.

1391
01:33:43,116 --> 01:33:45,319
My father is one of those people

1392
01:33:45,352 --> 01:33:49,723
that would have spent the rest of
his life trying to make a comeback.

1393
01:33:49,756 --> 01:33:53,694
He actually joked about it probably
up till age, I would say, 65.

1394
01:33:53,727 --> 01:33:56,030
"Wouldn't it be something to
shake up, shock the world?"

1395
01:33:56,063 --> 01:33:58,298
"We'll shake up the world. Come
back, take that title back."

1396
01:33:58,331 --> 01:34:05,973
Judge Jay Edson votes 99-94. Unanimous
decision for Trevor Berbick!

1397
01:34:07,140 --> 01:34:08,776
Well, there you have it.

1398
01:34:08,809 --> 01:34:11,412
Trevor Berbick has
the unanimous decision.

1399
01:34:14,781 --> 01:34:21,255
He's always defied impossible odds,
doing the seemingly impossible,

1400
01:34:21,288 --> 01:34:25,292
you know, and proving to the world, and
himself, that he can accomplish it.

1401
01:34:25,325 --> 01:34:28,429
And I think that's part
of what my father needed,

1402
01:34:28,462 --> 01:34:30,264
and it's part of what made him
who he is.

1403
01:34:30,297 --> 01:34:31,665
Had he not done it,

1404
01:34:31,699 --> 01:34:34,168
he wouldn't be the three-time
heavyweight champion of the world.

1405
01:34:34,201 --> 01:34:36,470
So he couldn't say goodbye to
boxing, so obviously, you know,

1406
01:34:36,503 --> 01:34:39,740
ultimately boxing had to say
goodbye for him.

1407
01:34:41,842 --> 01:34:44,244
Boxing will always continue
without me.

1408
01:34:44,277 --> 01:34:47,748
The Concorde, I understand,
is not too economical

1409
01:34:47,781 --> 01:34:50,284
and they're talking
about grounding it.

1410
01:34:50,317 --> 01:34:53,087
Well, if they do,
jet planes will still fly,

1411
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:55,289
but you just
won't have a Concorde.

1412
01:34:55,322 --> 01:35:01,128
So, I was the Concorde of boxing
and the other fighters are jets.

1413
01:35:01,161 --> 01:35:06,433
I was at a higher altitude than the
rest, moving faster than the rest,

1414
01:35:06,466 --> 01:35:10,304
but you'll just have to get
used to riding on jets again.

1415
01:35:10,337 --> 01:35:12,339
You can't ride Concorde anymore.

1416
01:35:35,228 --> 01:35:37,431
We're on our way to meet
Mike Tyson,

1417
01:35:37,464 --> 01:35:42,136
one of the most unique people
on planet Earth.

1418
01:35:46,907 --> 01:35:49,476
One time Muhammad Ali and
I were in New York City

1419
01:35:49,509 --> 01:35:53,480
and we got a call
about a reform school.

1420
01:35:53,513 --> 01:35:57,818
No celebrities or athletes ever visit
those kids, and they're good kids.

1421
01:35:57,851 --> 01:36:00,454
And we went out to
this reform school

1422
01:36:00,487 --> 01:36:03,557
and then three months later
I got a call from Cus D'Amato

1423
01:36:03,590 --> 01:36:07,461
and he said, "Gene,
lightning struck twice."

1424
01:36:07,494 --> 01:36:10,097
He said, "I got a young kid here

1425
01:36:10,130 --> 01:36:12,900
who's gonna be the heavyweight
champ of the world some day."

1426
01:36:12,933 --> 01:36:16,937
"He knows you." I said,"He knows me?
How does he know me, Cus?"

1427
01:36:20,240 --> 01:36:24,444
When I saw Muhammad Ali I was at a
reformatory in the Bronx, New York,

1428
01:36:24,477 --> 01:36:26,413
named Spofford.

1429
01:36:26,446 --> 01:36:29,583
And, um, Muhammad Ali came
one day out of the blue

1430
01:36:29,616 --> 01:36:31,518
and someone say,
"We have a surprise."

1431
01:36:31,551 --> 01:36:35,856
We saw the movie The Greatest and
then after that Muhammad Ali came in

1432
01:36:35,889 --> 01:36:40,260
and that was just a really, um,
interesting moment in my life.

1433
01:36:40,293 --> 01:36:44,565
I said, "Wow, that's awesome." You
know, "How can I be like that?"

1434
01:36:44,598 --> 01:36:48,368
Got involved with boxing
and, um, I met Cus

1435
01:36:48,401 --> 01:36:52,506
and Cus was very, um,
acquainted with, Ali

1436
01:36:52,539 --> 01:36:55,409
and, um, he would talk to him
on the phone.

1437
01:36:55,442 --> 01:36:57,911
You know, he'd call him up,
talk to him.

1438
01:36:57,944 --> 01:37:01,448
Him and Gene'd be talking, and
Gene'd put Ali on the phone.

1439
01:37:01,481 --> 01:37:05,319
And, sometimes I'd go over to the
phone and listen to 'em talk,

1440
01:37:05,352 --> 01:37:09,623
sneak another phone, put it... listen
to what they're talking about.

1441
01:37:09,656 --> 01:37:13,427
And, um, he just...
it was just in my environment.

1442
01:37:13,460 --> 01:37:18,565
Everything was fighting and war,
and the other concept of war

1443
01:37:18,598 --> 01:37:19,900
and fighting and war.

1444
01:37:19,933 --> 01:37:21,568
You know,
it's just the whole thing.

1445
01:37:21,601 --> 01:37:26,607
Who would have won if you
fought this man in your prime?

1446
01:37:31,945 --> 01:37:33,013
Him?

1447
01:37:33,980 --> 01:37:35,649
Ali, Ali!

1448
01:37:35,682 --> 01:37:38,185
Ali! Ali!

1449
01:37:40,687 --> 01:37:43,423
Wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

1450
01:37:43,456 --> 01:37:45,959
I was so fast.

1451
01:37:45,992 --> 01:37:47,628
But if he hit me...

1452
01:37:52,399 --> 01:37:55,936
- That's if you catch me.
- Yeah. What would you say, Mike?

1453
01:37:55,969 --> 01:37:59,606
I... by no means... I'm vain.

1454
01:37:59,639 --> 01:38:02,061
I know I'm great,
but can I tell you something?

1455
01:38:02,977 --> 01:38:05,512
In this situation every head must
bow, every tongue must confess.

1456
01:38:05,545 --> 01:38:08,282
This is
the greatest of all time.

1457
01:38:10,550 --> 01:38:16,223
You can't really explain, um,
what Muhammad Ali is.

1458
01:38:16,256 --> 01:38:18,292
You know, there's no word
really to explain it

1459
01:38:18,325 --> 01:38:21,495
as far as
achievements are concerned.

1460
01:38:21,528 --> 01:38:27,534
And, um, emotional and psychological
achievements and, you know, inspiration

1461
01:38:27,567 --> 01:38:31,371
that, that, um,
had came from Muhammad Ali.

1462
01:38:31,404 --> 01:38:33,974
Um, you just can't imagine
that in the word "great."

1463
01:38:34,007 --> 01:38:35,910
There has to be
another word created.

1464
01:38:37,644 --> 01:38:39,947
My father has a lot of sides,

1465
01:38:39,980 --> 01:38:43,517
and some sides are focused on
and some sides aren't.

1466
01:38:43,550 --> 01:38:45,686
And you hear about the fights.

1467
01:38:45,719 --> 01:38:49,957
You hear about, you know,
he's a good person to people,

1468
01:38:49,990 --> 01:38:54,027
but you don't hear about family that
much or what that meant to him.

1469
01:38:54,060 --> 01:38:55,529
You know, he used to always say,

1470
01:38:55,562 --> 01:38:58,665
"When you guys grow up, I
want us all to live on a hill

1471
01:38:58,698 --> 01:39:01,568
and everyone has a house
on the same street."

1472
01:39:01,601 --> 01:39:06,707
I admire him because I have half-sisters
and he had children out of wedlock

1473
01:39:06,740 --> 01:39:11,678
and he would make sure we all
converged in LA to be with him

1474
01:39:11,711 --> 01:39:13,046
and get to get to
know each other.

1475
01:39:13,079 --> 01:39:16,616
He wasn't a perfect person, but I
admired how he was with his kids

1476
01:39:16,649 --> 01:39:18,452
and what he wanted for us.

1477
01:39:23,323 --> 01:39:26,360
When you all get to be grown
ladies and get married,

1478
01:39:26,393 --> 01:39:28,495
and we look back
when you were coming up

1479
01:39:28,528 --> 01:39:31,531
you can say, "I didn't live with
all my sisters and brothers,

1480
01:39:31,564 --> 01:39:34,301
but Daddy let me see 'em,
and we knew 'em."

1481
01:39:34,334 --> 01:39:37,604
"Daddy let us play together."

1482
01:40:28,088 --> 01:40:31,625
Back in the days when Muhammad and
I was young kids, he would say,

1483
01:40:31,658 --> 01:40:35,629
"Rudy, I can see it in the stars.
God is talking to me."

1484
01:40:35,662 --> 01:40:38,465
He would tell me his destiny,
how great he would be.

1485
01:40:38,498 --> 01:40:40,734
He said, "And I want you to be with me.
I love you, my brother."

1486
01:40:40,767 --> 01:40:42,504
He's a sweet,
sweet, sweet person.

1487
01:40:43,773 --> 01:40:46,773
God blessed him with having
insight to predict the future.

1488
01:40:46,806 --> 01:40:49,643
"I'm gonna be the world's greatest boxer.
I'm gonna be a great man."

1489
01:40:49,676 --> 01:40:52,446
He wanted to become famous
to help people.

1490
01:40:52,479 --> 01:40:54,148
He's a wonderful, wonderful...

1491
01:40:59,686 --> 01:41:02,789
I can remember feeling
very proud of my father

1492
01:41:02,822 --> 01:41:09,496
and just an overwhelming sense of pride.
I guess it's a euphoric feeling.

1493
01:41:09,529 --> 01:41:11,531
You know, when I was...
From an early age,

1494
01:41:11,564 --> 01:41:14,768
anywhere we'd go together, because
not just him getting attention,

1495
01:41:14,801 --> 01:41:17,838
but the way that people would react to
him and sometimes they'd be in tears.

1496
01:41:17,871 --> 01:41:20,440
And I know my mother
hadn't seen my dad,

1497
01:41:20,473 --> 01:41:23,677
maybe, I would say, three or
four years after the marriage.

1498
01:41:23,710 --> 01:41:26,413
You know, he would come around and
three years might have gone by

1499
01:41:26,446 --> 01:41:28,548
where she hadn't seen him
and when he came to the house,

1500
01:41:28,581 --> 01:41:30,684
we lived in the Venice Canals,
she was remarried

1501
01:41:30,717 --> 01:41:33,153
and she looked at him
and she hugged him.

1502
01:41:33,186 --> 01:41:34,888
Then she started to cry
and she left the room.

1503
01:41:34,921 --> 01:41:37,202
My father looked at me and he
says, "Why is she crying?"

1504
01:41:37,223 --> 01:41:40,560
So I had to ask her. She said, "Well, I
looked into his eyes and I saw God."

1505
01:41:40,593 --> 01:41:43,864
So,
you know, and I said, "Oh."

1506
01:41:43,897 --> 01:41:45,765
"I know what you mean,"
you know?

1507
01:41:45,798 --> 01:41:46,998
He has this twinkle in his eye

1508
01:41:46,999 --> 01:41:49,803
and he has this spirit within
him that's so profound

1509
01:41:49,836 --> 01:41:53,258
that people sometimes are moved to
just silence when they see him.

1510
01:41:55,909 --> 01:41:58,512
It just makes you more, I think,

1511
01:41:58,545 --> 01:42:03,583
cognizant of just the spiritual
side of fame and celebrity.

1512
01:42:03,616 --> 01:42:06,720
Not just famous for being famous,
but it makes you wanna know why.

1513
01:42:06,753 --> 01:42:08,488
Why he was famous,
why people love him,

1514
01:42:08,521 --> 01:42:11,158
the stands that he took,
the controversy.

1515
01:42:11,191 --> 01:42:13,593
Everything that he went through,
it's all part of his story

1516
01:42:13,626 --> 01:42:14,866
of getting to where he is now.

1517
01:42:14,894 --> 01:42:18,052
You know, the ups and the downs
that all makes him who he is.

1518
01:42:20,767 --> 01:42:23,537
I'm with him in his
training camp at Deer Lake.

1519
01:42:23,570 --> 01:42:27,574
Cold. Freezing cold.

1520
01:42:27,607 --> 01:42:33,747
Um, you know, ten degrees outside and
maybe 20 degrees below zero, wind chill.

1521
01:42:33,780 --> 01:42:36,616
And he'd say, "Hey, George,
let's go for a walk."

1522
01:42:36,649 --> 01:42:40,587
I said, "What, are you crazy?" "Hey,
George, let's go for a walk!"

1523
01:42:40,620 --> 01:42:44,491
I said, "What..." "Hey,
George, let's go for a walk!"

1524
01:42:44,524 --> 01:42:47,794
I figure he's got something
he's gotta tell me.

1525
01:42:47,827 --> 01:42:49,796
And we go out in the snow
and we're...

1526
01:42:52,332 --> 01:42:54,234
Walking in the snow.

1527
01:42:54,267 --> 01:42:59,940
We walk about 30, 40 feet and
then he said, "Hey, George."

1528
01:42:59,973 --> 01:43:01,341
I figure, here it comes.

1529
01:43:01,375 --> 01:43:05,779
"You know I got the fastest left
hand in the history of boxing."

1530
01:43:07,647 --> 01:43:10,684
And I...

1531
01:43:10,717 --> 01:43:14,721
I said, "Yeah, for... fastest
left hand for a heavyweight."

1532
01:43:16,156 --> 01:43:21,528
"No, no, no, every weight class." I
said, "No, no, whoa, whoa, whoa."

1533
01:43:21,561 --> 01:43:27,000
Willie Pep, lightweight, middleweight.
Sugar Ray Robinson... No, no, no.

1534
01:43:27,033 --> 01:43:30,804
"You got the fastest left hand in
the history of boxing heavyweight."

1535
01:43:30,837 --> 01:43:33,273
He said, "Every weight class."

1536
01:43:34,974 --> 01:43:38,612
"You wanna... you wanna
see it?" I said, "Yeah."

1537
01:43:38,645 --> 01:43:40,214
"You wanna see it again?"

1538
01:43:43,850 --> 01:43:47,921
I think he's one of the greatest
men of the twentieth century.

1539
01:43:47,954 --> 01:43:52,025
One of the great heroes of all time.
Not our time, all time.

1540
01:43:52,058 --> 01:43:56,263
The most famous American ever.

1541
01:43:57,397 --> 01:44:02,669
To this day.
Ever. Yeah. Worldwide.

1542
01:44:02,702 --> 01:44:05,018
I mean, who doesn't know
who Muhammad Ali is?

1543
01:44:06,973 --> 01:44:09,309
I remember
the second Joe Frazier fight,

1544
01:44:09,342 --> 01:44:14,748
Madison Square Garden in New York City.
Ali beat Joe Frazier very easily.

1545
01:44:14,781 --> 01:44:16,816
The next day they have
a press conference,

1546
01:44:16,849 --> 01:44:19,919
so we walk from the Essex
House, Central Park East,

1547
01:44:19,952 --> 01:44:22,956
all the way down
to Madison Square Garden.

1548
01:44:22,989 --> 01:44:24,991
He looked good
and he knew he looked good.

1549
01:44:25,024 --> 01:44:26,144
He could look in the mirror.

1550
01:44:26,159 --> 01:44:29,002
He'd never seen a mirror he didn't like.
Look in there.

1551
01:44:30,335 --> 01:44:32,599
By the time we got
to Madison Square Garden,

1552
01:44:32,632 --> 01:44:34,968
there must have been
1,000 people behind us.

1553
01:44:35,001 --> 01:44:40,607
As I looked around, I realized
Muhammad Ali was no mere fighter.

1554
01:44:40,640 --> 01:44:44,811
He was more than just a fighter.
He was King of the World.

1555
01:44:46,646 --> 01:44:50,717
Just another ordinary day

1556
01:44:50,750 --> 01:44:54,354
Seven years, same old way

1557
01:44:54,387 --> 01:44:56,022
Dying is hard

1558
01:44:56,055 --> 01:44:59,393
I can't bear to stay

1559
01:45:03,463 --> 01:45:07,367
Just another ordinary day

1560
01:45:07,400 --> 01:45:11,404
Seven years, life rots away

1561
01:45:11,437 --> 01:45:12,839
And dying is hard

1562
01:45:12,872 --> 01:45:15,776
I can't bear to stay

1563
01:45:19,112 --> 01:45:23,016
Just another ordinary

1564
01:45:23,049 --> 01:45:26,853
Just another ordinary day

1565
01:45:26,886 --> 01:45:33,760
Morning comes
and then it takes you away

1566
01:45:49,175 --> 01:45:52,979
I had a dream last night. You and
I were together. We're old men.

1567
01:45:53,012 --> 01:45:56,850
But we're sitting and we're talking.
"We had some fun."

1568
01:45:56,883 --> 01:46:00,721
And you said, "Gene, you remember?
You remember, Gene?"

1569
01:46:02,889 --> 01:46:05,091
Muhammad Ali!

1570
01:46:05,124 --> 01:46:09,028
I wish that I had tapes of myself
from when I was this small.

1571
01:46:09,061 --> 01:46:13,433
I'm sure most people do, but many
people never think about these things.

1572
01:46:13,466 --> 01:46:18,104
Well, thank the Almighty God
Allah that I appreciate life

1573
01:46:18,137 --> 01:46:19,939
and I realize how great life is

1574
01:46:19,972 --> 01:46:24,110
once we get old and you remember
being back at this age again.

1575
01:46:24,143 --> 01:46:27,881
I know it's nice to have a
record of all these things.

1576
01:46:30,216 --> 01:46:34,054
It's history conscience. I'm
always thinking about history.

1577
01:46:38,958 --> 01:46:46,733
If anyone wondered why me, Muhammad
Ali, is making these tapes,

1578
01:46:46,766 --> 01:46:50,136
it's because
history is so beautiful.

1579
01:46:50,169 --> 01:46:53,840
At the time we're living life,
we don't realize.

1580
01:46:57,777 --> 01:47:00,113
We found our love

1581
01:47:00,146 --> 01:47:02,749
On Blueberry Hill

1582
01:47:02,782 --> 01:47:06,019
On Blueberry Hill

1583
01:47:06,052 --> 01:47:08,154
She was mine

1584
01:47:08,187 --> 01:47:10,757
She was mine

1585
01:47:10,790 --> 01:47:12,792
Once upon a time

1586
01:47:12,825 --> 01:47:15,061
Once upon a time

1587
01:47:16,529 --> 01:47:24,237
This is December 6th, 1979,
about 11:00pm.

1588
01:47:24,270 --> 01:47:26,606
Signing off. Goodbye, y'all.

1589
01:47:33,145 --> 01:47:34,914
Ooh

1590
01:47:34,947 --> 01:47:37,184
I get a feeling

1591
01:47:40,553 --> 01:47:43,890
People all around
trying to throw me down

1592
01:47:48,027 --> 01:47:49,829
Ooh

1593
01:47:49,862 --> 01:47:52,098
I need a re-do

1594
01:47:55,201 --> 01:47:58,137
So I took a swing
and spun you around

1595
01:47:58,170 --> 01:48:02,275
What do you say, stewardess? You
mean the plane is gonna crash?

1596
01:48:02,308 --> 01:48:05,912
Say a prayer?
Recite a Bible verse.

1597
01:48:05,945 --> 01:48:08,581
Well,
I don't know no Bible verse.

1598
01:48:08,614 --> 01:48:12,252
Just do something religious?
I'll take up a collection.

1599
01:48:17,924 --> 01:48:19,826
Son

1600
01:48:19,859 --> 01:48:23,296
We got it really going on

1601
01:48:23,329 --> 01:48:25,499
You'd better run

1602
01:48:26,933 --> 01:48:30,136
Run like the breeze

1603
01:48:48,154 --> 01:48:50,023
Ooh

1604
01:48:50,056 --> 01:48:52,158
I gotta move

1605
01:48:55,294 --> 01:48:58,698
People all around
getting in my way

1606
01:49:03,102 --> 01:49:05,038
Ooh

1607
01:49:05,071 --> 01:49:07,674
I get naked

1608
01:49:10,910 --> 01:49:14,614
I got something to give
Something to say

1609
01:49:18,317 --> 01:49:20,153
Son

1610
01:49:20,186 --> 01:49:22,322
We got it going on

1611
01:49:25,725 --> 01:49:29,062
You'd better run like the breeze

1612
01:49:33,366 --> 01:49:35,168
Son

1613
01:49:35,201 --> 01:49:38,972
We got it really going on

1614
01:49:39,005 --> 01:49:41,041
You'd better run

1615
01:49:42,208 --> 01:49:45,946
Run like the breeze

1616
01:50:18,110 --> 01:50:20,013
Oh

1617
01:50:20,046 --> 01:50:23,249
You'd better run,
you'd better run

1618
01:50:24,250 --> 01:50:25,719
Oh

1619
01:50:27,253 --> 01:50:29,155
You'd better run

1620
01:50:32,992 --> 01:50:34,961
Oh

1621
01:50:34,994 --> 01:50:38,231
You'd better run,
you'd better run

1622
01:50:39,131 --> 01:50:41,701
Oh, you'd better run

1623
01:50:48,007 --> 01:50:50,143
Oh

1624
01:50:50,176 --> 01:50:53,179
You'd better run,
you'd better run

1625
01:50:54,213 --> 01:50:55,749
Oh

1626
01:50:57,149 --> 01:50:58,752
You'd better run

1627
01:51:02,488 --> 01:51:04,190
Oh

1628
01:51:05,157 --> 01:51:08,161
You'd better run,
you'd better run

1629
01:51:09,161 --> 01:51:11,331
Oh, you'd better run

1630
01:51:12,305 --> 01:51:18,721
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